so is betting 22 and/or AJ not thin? i'd fistpump bet 22 and waver with AJ. dont wanna sidetrack the thread.

also had to consider the times we float flop with something like J9 and have to barrel, but in general seems like we should have the best hand (ie pair) a lot of the time where there arent many bluffs except for 78/79/89. maybe the rando king highs, but that gets too complicated for my peasant LHE brain

I was talking about this hand specifically (98) and thought you were too.

I guess I worded that confusingly... By polarized I just meant your hand is either very strong or 9 high on almost all rivers.

i mean, yeah you know my range is capped if you know that i'm 3betting 20% of hands, but getting a good handle on my calling range isn't going to be easy when i call 80%, fold 0% and play post flop well and balanced. if you can get a good handle on my pre flop calling range, then would you like to play me HU where you're always the SB and OOP and i'm always the BB? as a bonus and to make it more enticing for you, i'll give you my ranges for calling and raising.

how about we play HU and i'll only take the button on two out of three hands? as a bonus and to make it more enticing for you, i'll give you my exact strategy on every street.

p.s. you're an idiot

No u. My post is smart and points out how your post is dumb.

you're a very special moron if you've made 2981 posts on 2+2 and haven't yet figured out that having the button is an edge

Seems like you understand at least part of what I was trying to say.

that makes one of us

GG. You win.

Cool. I have a lot of catching up to do. Been too lazy to work on GTO PF stuff and haven't upgraded to Edge.

Damn I thought I was onto something by flatting 100%. How about limping the button or donking flops, do ppl do that?

Flatting 100% isn't as bad as the GTO guys will tell you it is because most villains will c-bet 100% or close to it. If they're capable of adjusting by opening a little wider and checking a lot of flops you have to punish them preflop.

Even if villains cbet 100%, you still miss out on massive value by not 3b'ing your best hands.

no

I might try to counter the check back strategy by donking some hands. If I think people are opening wider my natural foil would be to peel lighter and delay everything til the turn.

Three bet pre blind vs blind. Now there's a thought I haven't heard in a long time....

this, 100%. while playing exploitatively is suboptimal against solid aware players, doing so against not good players or worse costs money. you don't have to worry about creating solid ranges against your weaker opponents, nor about 3b pf if they're going to bet every single flop. Many people who are worse players but highly agro will also tend to bet the flop a ****ton. calling the bb with all your hands and then balancing your raises between flops and turns gets you more money than 3b'ing pf.

historically, i've used the pf flat strategy against great players who are in the sb b/c it's easier to execute and takes less thought at the table. but seeing the above, i'm thinking i should construct these ranges for those players. the people who i normally play the flat 100% method against either won't notice that i'm 3betting other people from the bb, or almost surely won't care.

I completely disagree that flatting 100% is easier fwiw. Or at least I don't play blind vs. blind enough to commit the kind of time to studying the flop options that it would require.

Example:
you flat AA. Flop comes 25Q. They cbet you raise. They have 5x-Qrag. They call down since your raise looks like Q+.
If you had 3b PF, they would put in a raise somewhere, allowing you to put in another raise.

By 3b'ing pre, they raise back lighter

If you're going to take the logically flawed side of the argument you're going to have to do better than "they play bad one flop against AA"

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Read between the lines. By 3b'ing pre, your range is wider than if you raise a flop. This means you can get more action from middling hands. AA and other monsters welcome this extra action.

Y'all are missing the social dynamic that comes from more preflop aggression: Tilt factor.

I have several people in the field who will go 4+ plus raises with me BvB due to image. Just calling aces is a disaster for me

I never realized "nice guy who plays tight" was the type of image that encourages tilt spew.

That's a legit argument tho unlike the nonsense phunkphish is spewing

Fwiw if you did flat aces pre this is a good board to wait til the turn. But I agree w Pete generally. Flat everything in the bb is a suboptimal strategy that tends to work great against typical players. But if a guy starts donk checking it is gonna get owned.

It's the same as button vs bb. Vs most players you shouldn't 3 bet out of the bb there but against wizards who check back correct flop textures you have to.

yup. this hurt me before i adjusted. i had a kr 100% strategy b/c it's easier to do than the optimal strategy of donking ~8-10% of the time as the bots do. but the kr 100% strategy is SUPER vulnerable to people who check back the flop correctly. so i either had to adopt a donking strategy or 3b a balanced range of around 15%. i didn't like that though b/c it forced me to play an uncomfortable position that i wasn't used to so i decided to 3b a bit tighter while still including some good semibluffing hands and donking a small % of the time with good hands and semibluffs.

so i think my blind play is still off a bit vs. great players, but it's good enough not to be easily exploited. it's just def not optimal. but as the old saying goes: i'd rather be approximately right than definitely wrong. and vs. good players who check back close to correctly, 100% calling bb and 100% kr'ing flop is definitely wrong.