I open A4 in MP, CO calls, BB calls.

CO is loose and overly tricky pre and post, capable of cold calling with a wide variety of hands. BB is a balanced crusher who doesn't have a 3bet range in this spot.

Flop J64
I check, CO bets, BB raises, I call, CO calls

T
BB checks, I check, CO bet, BB calls, I call

7
BB checks, I check, CO bets, BB folds, I fold.

I like the way you played it but don't understand what it had to do with a butcher shop.

Lol, I feel like I butchered it.

I call the end. You beat some hands and the pot is big.

How did the flop action go?

1) Was it BB checks, you bet, button calls, and you are check-raised?
2) Or was it BB checks, you check button bets, BB raises, and you call?

If it is #2 then I do not understand what you beat on the flop and you have only bottom pair with a backdoor flush draw, so it looks like a standard fold on the flop. Does the button raise 100% of the time, and BB raises as a bluff? Because that's all you beat and that seems to be quite a parlay.

The problem with the looser cut-off is that there is a J and a T on board which hit a lot of loose calls. AK/AQ will almost certainly 3-bet pre. Also the button is betting into two opponents who have shown interest in the pot. You seem to only beat a possible busted straight-draw (89), AX loose peal OTF turned into a bluff, or KQ. And you lose to a 77+, and any other two broadways. It loose to me likely this hand is going to be very broadway heavy otr with the JT, and the jacks and tens are very cold-call heavy. 89s is only 4 combos. KQ is 16 combos, so that's 20 wins, plus all the AX hands that peal/bluff (say 2/3 turns weak hand into bluff), so then this becomes a game of counting the combos and the size of the pot, but I suspect a fold. The upper middle cards are just so very bad. :/

Is K9 or Q9 still possible w/ this opponent?

Also, was just looking at the hand again in my mind and 89 is not a busted straight draw, haha. My mistake.

And tricky players aren't necessarily bluffers. Sometimes they will make strange value-bets and value-own themselves too, so 87 is still possible. I just have to give him some more respect than usual betting into two opponents on a board that could easily have hit either one of them in what looks like a contested pot.

yup.

I don't see the need for a flop checking range here. As played, I think it's fine though you can consider 3betting the flop some % of the time. You will get a free card a lot because your line looks so strong and you may even get CO to fold a better hand (55, 65s, etc.).

^ This is what I was thinking today. 3bet the flop, knock the late position person who's perhaps betting too much when checked to out, and go heads-up against the person who may be check-raising light. You can re-evaluate on any future street.

OTR though, you simply do not beat much with the J and T on board.

It seems theoretically exploitable to cbet 100% here, but in practice it's pretty hard for either opponent to do so individually. I also don't have a coherent checking strategy here, so just always cbetting is probably better than fudging a strategy on the spot.

I didn't check a hand this strong with the intention of folding, but it is close facing 2 cold with the possability of more raises, but I'm getting 5-1 with a pair and bdfd and I still have the best hand sometimes, so I think folding is a little weak.

Yeah, I felt like I was still pretty far up in my own range after taking this line, but I just couldn't think of many hands I could beat at this point. But, I felt pretty stupid when he showed 22 which he was going for thin value with. Guess I shouldn't be trying to exploit a range I have no idea about.

What kind of hand do you think the BB had here? Can't think of any that make much sense for someone who you said is a very good player.

Given the way youbplayed it I like the fold on the river. I woulda bet the flop though and. Hope co makes bb face 2 instead of allowing them to make you face two and have a spot where you have a hand you're not excited to call but have to.

Okay. Thatmakes sense. I am not so sure though, because you can have money-wise odds to call, but have so many tough decisions coming down the road that it's hardly worth it. It may also be that I'm not gambling enough.

I meant a "percentage-wise" call, and still be in trouble money-wise, also. The betting isn't closed yet, and your hand is somewhat revealed. Maybe there's money in calling, but if so I like the 3bet and get to the river cheaply while knocking the other person out. It's worth an extra small to increase your equity in the pot.

Since coldcaller is overly loose, I think its ok for BB to have a 3b range PF

I think its more important to think about CO's range. Definitely Jx+. Based off PF reads, maybe 77+, the times he doesn't 3b them. I don't think he'd vbet 6x. If that's entirely what you put him on, then we fold river. If you think he's capable of leading flop with a variety of Ax, Kx and SCs, then I'd call river since we beat enough of those hands. Both of his opponents look very weak and capped, so it makes sense for him to turn everything into a bluff.

You don't have to beat much when the pot is 10 bets. It's ok to call and lose. I mean I bet the flop too but folding the river is a worse decision than chking the flop imo.

I mean seriously. CO is "loose and overly tricky", we have a slightly underrepped hand, and the pot is 10 bets. You can pry this hand out of my cold dead fingers.

Well, I didn't have long to think in an unbiased way about CO's range since results were given awfully quickly.

I also would have bet the flop here, but if it were two bets back to me (after betting, or after checking as in OP), I would have folded. Since it turns out BB seems to have had nothing, that would have been a bad fold. So I would like to understand what a good player could have had there.

Luckily the results are consistent with the read given.


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What do you think about 3betting compared to calling when it is check/check, CO bets, BB raises...

Call or 3bet?

I don't love it.


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Two overs against the player who is perceived as betting whenever it is checked to him is my guess. You are correct that the way the hand is played it changes the reads. And, I am with you and would fold, but I also like 3betting better than calling. I might 3bet.

It sounds like a great way to bloat the pot and then not know what to do since no one is going to fold anything since your line looks like bull****