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Old 10-15-2008, 01:57 AM   #1
jesse8888
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Blind Steal Gone Wrong

Folds to me in the cutoff and I open-raise J9o. As I do this I look left, and the player on my left probably notices this. He 3-bangs me, and the blinds fold. I don't have a good sense of his range. It's of course wider than your average live 20/40 3-bet range, but I'm sure he does not suspect I'm opening nearly as wide as I am. He is one of the best players in my game that I don't know from these forums. I of course just call.


7 small bets, heads up

QT4 rainbow

I check/raise him and he calls.


5.5 big bets, heads up

QT4-J putting a flush draw

I bet, he raises, and I....


1. Anybody just call the flop?

2. Anybody check this turn?

3. How do I proceed from here? I've could be drawing completely dead, but against lots of hands I have a ton of outs. What's the plan?
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Old 10-15-2008, 02:03 AM   #2
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Re: Blind Steal Gone Wrong

I do not like the flop check raise. You are going to get three bet by a lot of the hands that three bet you preflop and if they aren't three balling you on the flop then most arent folding till the river so you would have to three barrel if you miss which is almost always ends in fail.
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Old 10-15-2008, 02:16 AM   #3
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Re: Blind Steal Gone Wrong

If he is 3betting wide enough the CR may have value if he lays down A high hands and pockets below T.

On the turn just call and pray.

gah, that J is a pukey card.
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Old 10-15-2008, 02:20 AM   #4
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Re: Blind Steal Gone Wrong

I actually do just call the flop. In these mid limit games, getting over aggressive OOP with a draw is just painful. If I want to bluff it, I'll do it on the turn. Less equity there, but the chance that he'll fold it is much greater. Of course, on this particular turn, I'm still check-calling. Check-calling any non-8 river.
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Old 10-15-2008, 02:23 AM   #5
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Re: Blind Steal Gone Wrong

well played so far now calldown unless the flush comes
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Old 10-15-2008, 02:53 AM   #6
jesse8888
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Re: Blind Steal Gone Wrong

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Originally Posted by CardSharpCook View Post
I actually do just call the flop. In these mid limit games, getting over aggressive OOP with a draw is just painful. If I want to bluff it, I'll do it on the turn. Less equity there, but the chance that he'll fold it is much greater. Of course, on this particular turn, I'm still check-calling. Check-calling any non-8 river.
you guys really think I can call the river UI here? I'd never even consider that....what on earth do I beat that he bets on a river brick?
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Old 10-15-2008, 03:10 AM   #7
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Re: Blind Steal Gone Wrong

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you guys really think I can call the river UI here? I'd never even consider that....what on earth do I beat that he bets on a river brick?
Sorry, that's confusing. In the mythical world in which you check-called both the flop and the turn, you're doing the same on the river.
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Old 10-15-2008, 03:13 AM   #8
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Re: Blind Steal Gone Wrong

However, I suppose I can't argue against a call down here. Hell, a week ago I had a feeling that the guy who chk/rzd the flop did so with nothing. So I peeled with k7o on a 822 board and raised the T turn. So... your jack would have beat me?

(in that hand I cursed myself when he called the turn raise, checked behind on the brick river and rolled my eyes in glee when he rolled QJ)
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Old 10-15-2008, 03:18 AM   #9
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Re: Blind Steal Gone Wrong

PROFESSIONAL!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CardSharpCook View Post
However, I suppose I can't argue against a call down here. Hell, a week ago I had a feeling that the guy who chk/rzd the flop did so with nothing. So I peeled with k7o on a 822 board and raised the T turn. So... your jack would have beat me?

(in that hand I cursed myself when he called the turn raise, checked behind on the brick river and rolled my eyes in glee when he rolled QJ)
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Old 10-15-2008, 07:24 AM   #10
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Re: Blind Steal Gone Wrong

Yeah, I'd just c/c the flop.

I'd like the c/r more if the flop was Q84.
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Old 10-15-2008, 03:49 PM   #11
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Re: Blind Steal Gone Wrong

He hates you for open raising **** in the CO. I call this down and like it.
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Old 10-15-2008, 10:32 PM   #12
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Re: Blind Steal Gone Wrong

I think Jesse's description isn't very accurate.

Villain does not have a wide 3-bet range and he is also pretty passive postflop for a taggy without a strong hand. I would characterize him as solid, a little on the passive side.

AJ/77 is probably the worst of his range here. Maybe not even that weak.

So while he's not a strong, tough thinking player, he plays solid enough and aggressive enough to be a reasonable winner and better than 90% of the retards who frequent the 20 game.
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Old 10-15-2008, 11:43 PM   #13
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Re: Blind Steal Gone Wrong

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Originally Posted by Captain R View Post
I think Jesse's description isn't very accurate.

Villain does not have a wide 3-bet range and he is also pretty passive postflop for a taggy without a strong hand. I would characterize him as solid, a little on the passive side.

AJ/77 is probably the worst of his range here. Maybe not even that weak.

So while he's not a strong, tough thinking player, he plays solid enough and aggressive enough to be a reasonable winner and better than 90% of the retards who frequent the 20 game.


lol this would also describe me at a live LHE game to a "T".

Last edited by npknhldr; 10-15-2008 at 11:43 PM. Reason: and you shouldn't b/c turn, c/c river against me...
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Old 10-15-2008, 11:56 PM   #14
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Re: Blind Steal Gone Wrong

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Originally Posted by NinaWilliams View Post
Yeah, I'd just c/c the flop.

I'd like the c/r more if the flop was Q84.
okay I feel the opposite and you're obviously way better than I so can you go further in to this? I feel like villain will be more inclined to fold small pairs in the first scenario.
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Old 10-16-2008, 01:00 AM   #15
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Re: Blind Steal Gone Wrong

I think the flop c/r is fine and I'd do that here and as a default in general

i also wouldnt hate a turn check.. he'll be very tempted to bet most worse hands with show down value imo, like AT/KT, plus even if he checks behind small pp's, he's drawing very thin... this also allows us to draw cheap the times we're behind and just make a decision on the river
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Old 10-16-2008, 01:58 AM   #16
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Re: Blind Steal Gone Wrong

I'd play the flop the same and probably the turn too, depending on his reaction to the c/r. Once he raises the turn you can fold the river u/i against the player you describe.
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Old 10-16-2008, 05:26 AM   #17
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Re: Blind Steal Gone Wrong

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Originally Posted by StrictlyStrategy View Post
okay I feel the opposite and you're obviously way better than I so can you go further in to this? I feel like villain will be more inclined to fold small pairs in the first scenario.
Your equity isn't THAT much worse on Q84. Also, you'll have to triple barrel QTx more. Small pairs don't really made up a lot of his range either.

Edit to say that while you do have more FE vs pairs on QT4, on the Q84, his AT,KT hands did not pair up.

Last edited by NinaWilliams; 10-16-2008 at 05:50 AM.
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