Seems like that same opponent will b/3b the turn with KT as well.

FWIW I can think of many players whom I'd x/r/4 the flop against while snap folding to their turn raise.

I wouldn't be isoing a good winning tag in this spot. This seems like a 3bet pre against a 60/40 maniac. Also 3 betting the flop to get a cheap showdown is bad for obvious reasons.

I don't think this is universally true vs all players.


There's also bord textures like Red AA on a 3 heart flop that I think is a good candidate to 3 bet, certainly vs players that are going to donk check turn a fair amount

Why do I care if they donk check the turn? I'm not worried about missing value because I can decide wether or not a bet goes in on the turn. When we b/3b the flop we somewhat mitigate the value of having position in the hand by over complicating balanced range application for later streets.

By making b/c my default play I keep my range wide by hiding information and not bifurcating it. That has the ancillary benefits of protecting all of my very weak peels as well as my weak showdownables/bluff catchers. Which, in a bloated pot, is pretty important.

It's far easier to employ balance with less effort when we chop off a branch of the game tree which also makes later streets (the turn especially) easier to play. If you bet/3bet the flop you must first figure out a balanced range with which to do so. Now, in order to continue to play in a balanced fashion, we have to have strong and weak hands in both our betting and checking range on the turn. That means we're going to have to check back the nuts or some other really strong hand some small percentage of the time. That makes a balanced turn checking range, after a flop b/3b, very difficult to construct let alone apply correctly.

Since it's so hard to have a balanced b/3b strategy, I just stick with b/c HU IP on the flop. Especially vs. the villain as described in this hand. If I were to deviate from that default strategy, it would be completely exploitative with the nutted part of my range vs. a maniacal player type that can't hand read and who is liable to put it multiple bets on the big streets drawing slim or dead regardless of the flop action.

ThAts all true, bu it becomes less important if you knew what was going trough the head of people I 3 bet the flop against.

I'll bet my life it's not "ha that stupid bastard just bifurcated his range vs me." Vs people that actually know what that means I'm less inclined (if at all) to 3 bet the flop.

Also just becuse it's much Harder to have a balanced flop 3 betting range (which I agree it it is) doesn't necessarily make having one incorrect.

Also lets not forget that commerce picture where top set got in like 45 bets on the flop. Sure there would be a ton of action on the turn anyways, but I'll bet all the money doesn't get in

54 IIRC. Bottom set dude actually said "I didn't put him on that" after the other guy like 53 bet the flop.


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You're not wrong. But you're arguing for the exception to the rule. Of course there are exceptions to every rule, but I can think of 2 out of 200 players against which it would be more profitable to deviate from my default strategy. My game has a 4 bet cap on every street even when HU, so that makes a difference as well.

You're clearly trying to justify the preflop 3-bet by mentioning that Schneids and bicyclekick are in the blinds, but it's just bad. Fold it.

I don't like 3ing from the SB or BB against a good player who opens the BTN. We're just opening ourselves up to lose multiple bets with a mediocre hand and trying to play OOP will only results in a -EV over the long run imo.

That's harsh, I feel like bicyclekick has continued to work on his game.

Schneids only shows up for 50.

I would bet my life that no more than 1-2 non 2p2ers could guess my UTG raising range much less whether my flop betting range were bifurcated.

If you were to simply b/3b everyone or every flop you thought should be b/3b and b/c everyone or every flop you thought should be b/c, the vast vast majority of opponents would conclude you play randomly, not that you b/3b because of this opponent on this flop.

If you insist on b/3b the flop in position with some hands, this is a horrible one to do it with.

Not sure anything needs to be said other than this is awful pre and post flop.

So because he played the hand badly we don't need to comment on what he could have done better? He posted the hand for input, likely because he realized it wasn't good, even if he wasn't sure why. So the thread exists to help him understand why and discuss how we might play this hand in the future, or similar hands, etc. There's plenty to say even when OP has butchered a hand.

I can't imagine posting a hand where I played well because wtf is there to talk about then?

Instead we got a whole bunch of good discussion about if/when to 3-bet flop vs delaying until the turn and it's something I consider now every time I'm in a heads up pot.