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Old 04-23-2017, 10:52 PM   #1
DonkeyOnTilt
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10/20 Mix LHE against super drunk dude

10/20 mix, LHE round. Folds to me on the button with K6o. It was a marginal spot but the BB was unbelievably tight, barely playing any hands for several rounds of O8, Stud8 and LHE. SB is a super annoying guy who is one of the most intoxicated people I've seen at a table. Like I don't know how he hasn't gotten cut off. So far he has been loose pre and very aggro on the flop but mostly standard on the bigger streets. He 3 bets, BB folds and I call.

Flop comes 543 rainbow. He bets, I raise, he calls. Turn is a 6 putting a backdoor flushdraw up. He now donks and I call. River is another 4 completing the rainbow and he bets again.

Thoughts?
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Old 04-23-2017, 11:13 PM   #2
avoidthe9to5
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Re: 10/20 Mix LHE against super drunk dude

why raise flop when you can call all 3 streets and win unimproved with K high? I would very rarely raise a flop like this with anything at all ip. We're not really folding this flop with anything

If he 3bets it's a disaster for us as we lost most of our showdownability
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Old 04-24-2017, 12:56 AM   #3
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Re: 10/20 Mix LHE against super drunk dude

Agree that A6 and K6 are good 6x candidates to check-call down. Other 6x we'd want to raise as a bluff or for value.

Disagree to flat everything. Exploitatively, drunk guy (and other types) can easily spaz on flop, and we'd want to induce further action with our monsters . GTO speaking, I can't imagine the solution to ever have a blank branch for flop or turn with reasonable PF ranges.
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Old 04-24-2017, 02:00 AM   #4
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Re: 10/20 Mix LHE against super drunk dude

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Originally Posted by phunkphish View Post
Agree that A6 and K6 are good 6x candidates to check-call down. Other 6x we'd want to raise as a bluff or for value.

Disagree to flat everything. Exploitatively, drunk guy (and other types) can easily spaz on flop, and we'd want to induce further action with our monsters . GTO speaking, I can't imagine the solution to ever have a blank branch for flop or turn with reasonable PF ranges.
I agree exploitatively it's correct to raise/call so we can raise again. I almost always speak from a fundamental approach when posting =P

vs maniacs, put in extra money +1 (not with this hand though!~)
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Old 04-24-2017, 05:42 AM   #5
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Re: 10/20 Mix LHE against super drunk dude

My sims still show raising on flop much more than 0%, and folding some 89/9T.
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Old 04-24-2017, 06:57 AM   #6
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Re: 10/20 Mix LHE against super drunk dude

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My sims still show raising on flop much more than 0%, and folding some 89/9T.
oop cbetting 97%+ (humans should prob just cbet 100%)
--- reasoning: donk checking w\ 2-9% of all combos balanced perfectly is extremely difficult and unnecessary.

ip raising <3% (humans should prob just call 100%)
--- note: this is still trending to zero over time, but i'm too impatient to let it finish.
--- reasoning: raising with <10% of all value combos balanced perfectly is extremely difficult and unnecessary.
^ imo anytime we raise <9% and we have no folding range, i prefer to just flat whole range instead of creating an extremely specific + hard to balance raise range. (doing things like raising KK 9% of time on flop... K9s 13%... 22 9%... A9o 4%) It's very hard to split combos at game speed like this and remain balanced.

ip folding <0.90% (humans should prob just call 100%)
--- note: this is still trending to zero over time, but i'm too impatient to let it finish.
--- reasoning: folding JTo,J9o,T9o,98o <15% of the time... still calling 85% of the time. This is unnecessary and goofy imo. Zero chance I fold any of these vs anyone except a super nit. (and then it becomes exploitatively correct)


Note on value though: vs the maniac though, i agree it's fine to fastplay lots of value to induce. (unbalanced strong mostly)

Last edited by avoidthe9to5; 04-24-2017 at 07:08 AM.
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Old 04-24-2017, 07:07 AM   #7
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Re: 10/20 Mix LHE against super drunk dude

side note: Playing the flop HU IP in 3bet pots is kindof boring strategically =P (on most board textures)
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Old 04-24-2017, 01:20 PM   #8
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Re: 10/20 Mix LHE against super drunk dude

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Originally Posted by avoidthe9to5 View Post
I agree exploitatively it's correct to raise/call so we can raise again. I almost always speak from a fundamental approach when posting =P

vs maniacs, put in extra money +1 (not with this hand though!~)
This is like the ultimate hand that I don't want to put extra $ in. We have good equity versus everything, but we're not really "ahead" and don't want to be shoveling extra in. Especially since we're calling river when it doesn't run out disastrously.
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Old 04-24-2017, 06:25 PM   #9
asmitty
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Re: 10/20 Mix LHE against super drunk dude

I would not raise flop here. Calling 3x is probably best. In practice I don't always peel with J high or Q high on this flop 100% of the time, but maybe I should and I am folding too much.

If I were to have a raising range on this flop, it would start with OESD + BDFD combos that I wasn't planning on showing down with. Stuff like 86s, T6s, Q2s, etc.
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Old 04-24-2017, 07:18 PM   #10
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Re: 10/20 Mix LHE against super drunk dude

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Originally Posted by avoidthe9to5 View Post
side note: Playing the flop HU IP in 3bet pots is kindof boring strategically =P (on most board textures)
Yeah which is why I changed the action a little. I did do the boring thing and just call down and actually got slowrolled by a stranger for the first time ever. This guy was just the nut low.

I just wanted to see if my thought of raising the flop was ever good. Glad I didn't though there were other spots I got into with this guy that lead to other weird spots, this didn't end up being one of them.
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Old 04-24-2017, 07:20 PM   #11
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Re: 10/20 Mix LHE against super drunk dude

Folding Jhi / Qhi for 1 small bet IP is pretty weak. Position! And remember the pot is bloated PF -- big difference between single raised pot and 3b pot.

Calling river with Khi on brick-brick is marginal IMO. But, most people don't have a give up river range ==> they bluff too much ==> we call lighter.
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Old 04-24-2017, 07:29 PM   #12
DonkeyOnTilt
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Re: 10/20 Mix LHE against super drunk dude

Also, against this guy I would've called with 100% of the range I 3bet the button with. He was that spastic drunk and playing weird.

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