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UTG raise of AK vs tough player in BB UTG raise of AK vs tough player in BB

02-19-2015 , 12:49 PM
20/40. I raise UTG with AdKh and only BB calls.

He's a young LAG tough player who is tenacious in his efforts to win a pot.

Flop comes 9s9c4s.

He checks, should I bet?

I bet and he check raises. Now what? Should I fold, call or 3-bet?

Other lines might include:

1) Checking the flop and raising the turn if he bets.

2) 3-betting the flop and if he doesn't cap it, checking behind on the turn and calling any river card.

3) 3-betting the flop, betting the turn and folding to a check raise.

Of course your turn decision might change if you hit an A or a K.
UTG raise of AK vs tough player in BB Quote
02-19-2015 , 01:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snap It Off
20/40. I raise UTG with AdKh and only BB calls.

He's a young LAG tough player who is tenacious in his efforts to win a pot.

Flop comes 9s9c4s.

He checks, should I bet?

I bet and he check raises. Now what? Should I fold, call or 3-bet?

Other lines might include:

1) Checking the flop and raising the turn if he bets.

2) 3-betting the flop and if he doesn't cap it, checking behind on the turn and calling any river card.

3) 3-betting the flop, betting the turn and folding to a check raise.

Of course your turn decision might change if you hit an A or a K.

You absolutely should bet. This is a good flop for your hand, and trying to construct a balanced betting and checking range from your UTG range on 994tt is futile.

As you did bet (good), you should certainly call down now, maybe folding river to cards like the T or running paint that isn't an A or K. I probably raise any K, call the A, and decide on other aces depending on villain's showdown tendencies. Three betting flop is TAGfishery 101; turning a bluffcatcher into some bluff/weird free card play to fold him off his own bluffs. I know many players who do this, and they get 4 bet relentlessly by my flush draws, pairs, and especially my 9's here.
UTG raise of AK vs tough player in BB Quote
02-19-2015 , 01:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snap It Off
20/40. I raise UTG with AdKh and only BB calls.

He's a young LAG tough player who is tenacious in his efforts to win a pot.

Flop comes 9s9c4s.

He checks, should I bet?

I bet and he check raises. Now what? Should I fold, call or 3-bet?

Other lines might include:

1) Checking the flop and raising the turn if he bets.

2) 3-betting the flop and if he doesn't cap it, checking behind on the turn and calling any river card.

3) 3-betting the flop, betting the turn and folding to a check raise.

Of course your turn decision might change if you hit an A or a K.
It's good that you're thinking about all possible lines. In this case, you really need to simplify your thinking.

Your UTG range is very narrow. His BB defend range is much wider. By his description, it's probably wider than it should be.

Your range will CRUSH him on ANY flop. This happens to be a pretty dry flop. You should cbet close to 100% regardless of flop, and only deviate if there is a really strong reason to do so.


After that, play poker.
UTG raise of AK vs tough player in BB Quote
02-19-2015 , 05:43 PM
why would you ever 3 bet flop, mean everybody does, but why.
I'm curious because i always wonder what opponents thought process is here when they 3 bet /AK/AQ here. In my entire poker career I've made a lot of mistakes and taken a lot of bad lines as well as figured a lot of things out, but I don't think there was ever a time where I thought 3 betting AK in this spot on the flop was a good idea.
UTG raise of AK vs tough player in BB Quote
02-19-2015 , 05:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon_locke
why would you ever 3 bet flop, mean everybody does, but why.
I'm curious because i always wonder what opponents thought process is here when they 3 bet /AK/AQ here. In my entire poker career I've made a lot of mistakes and taken a lot of bad lines as well as figured a lot of things out, but I don't think there was ever a time where I thought 3 betting AK in this spot on the flop was a good idea.
yea me too. ive done some awful things but I really dont think ive ever 3bet high cards in a spot like this
UTG raise of AK vs tough player in BB Quote
02-19-2015 , 06:42 PM
I think the AK whiff the flop and then 3 bet is a bad play that has been passed down from fish to fish over the years. I have been guilty of this, "I will force those b@stards to fold through sheer will and brute force."

Eventually with therapy and coaching, I saw it for what it was...a decent bluff catcher. Now I say let them donk their chips off...I am happy to collect when they bet muck the river
UTG raise of AK vs tough player in BB Quote
02-20-2015 , 04:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokerOnTilt
I think the AK whiff the flop and then 3 bet is a bad play that has been passed down from fish to fish over the years. I have been guilty of this, "I will force those b@stards to fold through sheer will and brute force."

Eventually with therapy and coaching, I saw it for what it was...a decent bluff catcher. Now I say let them donk their chips off...I am happy to collect when they bet muck the river
I never thought it was about "folding him out anyway". It's about "if he's on a draw, this is cheaper than calling down!", which is an amazing jump from "I can't raise turned TPTK for value" in that both actions open you up to additional action. I can't tell you how many times I've 4 bet - barreled off against these habitual free carders (and guess what? They fold).

So option A: call down the raise:

AK on J99tt, turn river red 2's. You call twice and win sometimes. Amount invested postflop: 3 BB

Option B: you three bet and get four bet. Same board, same action. Amount invested: 4 BB. Win less often. Sometimes talk yourself into a fold, investing the same amount as before while not seeing a showdown.

Of course, against guys who check raise this flop, bet turn and never fire the third barrel w/ a bluff, b3b/b/check becomes a much less awful line, which is why so many people likely learned to do it. I just adjust by 4 betting these guys relentlessly OOP and putting most of their range on this board in a lot of peril (and make sure I do it w/ QQ+ and a 9 as well, so that I'm not similarly exposing myself to be bluffed out of the pot).
UTG raise of AK vs tough player in BB Quote
02-27-2015 , 11:50 AM
Easy bet for value against a wide range on a dry board.
UTG raise of AK vs tough player in BB Quote
02-27-2015 , 12:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon_locke
why would you ever 3 bet flop, mean everybody does, but why.
I'm curious because i always wonder what opponents thought process is here when they 3 bet /AK/AQ here.
It's the free card play, done for all the reasons outlined in SSHE and wrong for all the reasons outlined in WITHG.
UTG raise of AK vs tough player in BB Quote
03-25-2015 , 09:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon_locke
why would you ever 3 bet flop, mean everybody does, but why.
I'm curious because i always wonder what opponents thought process is here when they 3 bet /AK/AQ here. In my entire poker career I've made a lot of mistakes and taken a lot of bad lines as well as figured a lot of things out, but I don't think there was ever a time where I thought 3 betting AK in this spot on the flop was a good idea.
My line vs. a more straightforward opponent would be to call the flop k/r. However, if I have enough history with villian to know his range consists of more flush draws in this spot, then there are merits to 3 betting the flop and betting any non spade turn for value.

But I agree the flop 3bet free card play is just an old school line and also regs will catch on and punish you with 4bets.
UTG raise of AK vs tough player in BB Quote
03-26-2015 , 05:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6MaxLHE
My line vs. a more straightforward opponent would be to call the flop k/r. However, if I have enough history with villian to know his range consists of more flush draws in this spot, then there are merits to 3 betting the flop and betting any non spade turn for value.
When he has the flush draw his equity if above 50%, so boating the pot makes even less sense when we are at an equity disadvantage. That's no even considering his equity when we are almost drawing dead.
UTG raise of AK vs tough player in BB Quote
03-31-2015 , 09:54 PM
Call; call; and call.
I raise if I have an amazingly tight read (and I read well, baby) on the turn, and then c/c.
UTG raise of AK vs tough player in BB Quote
04-01-2015 , 10:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by COCOCHANEL
Call; call; and call.
I raise if I have an amazingly tight read (and I read well, baby) on the turn, and then c/c.
How can you raise and then check-call?
UTG raise of AK vs tough player in BB Quote
04-01-2015 , 05:54 PM
Keep your foes confused?

UTG raise of AK vs tough player in BB Quote

      
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