This might be so close that it doesn't matter, but I thought it was an interesting hand so I'll post it. Also, two experts slightly disagreed on the river, so...

SB: Loose, terrible fish. He's stuck a lot. He plays very straightforwardly post-flop.

EP: LAGgy Vietnamese guy; plays okay but not great. He's running well today.

HJ: Old weak-tight rock.

Button: Worst limit holdem player in California. I can't begin to describe just how terrible this guy is. Just imagine playing like Schneids or CDC or Joe Cassidy and figuring out what the best possible decision is at every point in a hand, then do the exact opposite of that to play like this guy.


Live 40. EP limps, I raise 88, HJ cold-calls, button 3-bets, SB caps, BB folds, EP calls, I call, HJ calls, button calls.

5 to the flop for 20 sb

Flop: 922. SB bets, EP calls, I call, HJ folds, button calls.

4 to the turn for 12 BB

Turn: 3. SB checks, EP checks, I bet, button folds, SB calls, EP calls.
River: J. SB checks, EP checks, and I... ?

How many pocket pairs can EP have? Of 44-77, are any eliminated by his not raising preflop? Are all eliminated?

Off the cuff I'd say SB has AK and EP has like pocket 5s and you'll get at least one call if you bet. The problem is that it sounds like you might have to pay off an EP check/raise....

i think you got a vb, and id strongly consider folding to a cr from either player

offsuit Jack is a slam dunk value bet, the backdoor Jack makes me want to throw up inside a little bit, but I think you ought to bet. straight forward guys (especially ones that are stuck) are going to bet this river if they backdoored the flush. if the laggy vietnamese guy (is there any other kind?) checkraises i'd start flipping theoretical coins and do that live poker stuff that you're so good at to decide.

also, lol at comparing me to those guys, but thanks anyways. =P

Not that I can add much to the hand, but I would agree its a value bet...

by the way the players were roughly described and the way the betting went, its weighing heavily on the side of value town.

and yeah I think all viets are laggy. that comment made me lol

I think the pot is big enough that you're going to get called by all sorts of worse hands, so it's probably a bet. I couldn't bring myself to fold with all those chips in the middle if either one c-r's

More importantly, you know there are no unimproved 8s in Los Angeles. They all have endless surgeries and botox injections in an effort to be greatly improved 10s. Most of them end up looking like sad and lonely and topheavy 5s. But enough about L.A., California’s other Silicone Valley.

SB really has to have AK here and he probably pays off a bet. The real problem is EP. Is he the kind of guy that is like OMG it was capped pre-flop, I am just going to check and call my 9 all the way down? I think it is super close but I check this river because SB might not pay off with AK, if EP calls/raises you lose, BD flush etc. If I bet, I would pay off a c/r from SB but not from EP.

P.S. I am not the button in this hand for those of you that were wondering.

Thanks for clearing that up.

So the real question is does Joker pay a Vietnamese river check/lay....

I don't see a lot of 9s in your opponents' ranges and I think you have a pretty straightforward value bet. Not a lot makes sense that beats you that would have played the way they did.

Are we really ever good when SB c/r?

No, not really in the 40. But maybe, with this guy on major tilt, we're good once in a blue moon. I haven't added it up, but we're probably a wee bit short of blue moon odds.

FWIW, I am seeing a bit more check-raising bluffs on the river in the Commerce 40 than I have seen in the past.

And, for the record, I too was not the button in this hand.

RESULTS?

i hope you value bet.

I don't remember this hand at all. Couldn't even begin to tell you the results. Since it's 2009, I would imagine I checked because I was an even bigger nit three years ago than I am now. But who knows if I won or not...

Thanks for bumping this thread CDC because now we can all look at OTR's old avatar and JJH763786187364187648 screenname.

One factor to consider here is your opponents' propensity to do stuff like this:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/53...-w-k5s-213612/