well in this case i think my logic is da winner lol. in hand 2 if we were up against somebody that does crazy sh*t MORE than rarely, then yes, i'd agree w/ raising more. but here it's rare so we have to call too much.

in hand 1, he can really only 3b when we're beat given how the hand played out so we can much more comfortably fold.

My logic in hand two at game speed was flawed. I was just optimistically looking at all the Ax hands I beat or counterfeited and not thinking about hands that beat me, can't call a raise, or I beat but would have checked the river when the Queen pairs. I think a call is better.

I will say I go for thin river value a lot because I have been caught bluff raising the river in some truly hilarious spots and people remember those. Can't tell you how many times I get crying called on the river while they mutter "only you are crazy enough to have a bluff here"

im not sure why everyone says ( i think im its the one who is wrong). "RAISE" the river?, he say my options are RAISE and calls a 3bet, why you dont call that i " BET" the river.

I understand that, raise is when you bet and someone raise you, idk.

H1: i probably fold if the check raise is big enough, if it is a little one i call, and call the river.

H2: Probably call depends of the size of the bet

Ducky this is a limit poker forum so you are the one who is confused

Live reads should come into play if their two pair got counterfitted. I think many will shrug and barrel after counterfitted.

Really like your second statement. There are so many times when good players try to make reads and make big laydowns in big pots. It's definitely a good thing to have crazy unexpected bluffs.

didnt understand whay you say sory. :S


Can u answer me why everyone say raise to a bet?

hand 1
i'm just having a hard time coming up with a range that we're ahead of here on the river. this first equity calculation has some hands in it that benefit our range that i don't think should be in there. i'm assuming that a good player isn't going to x/r the flop with most of his flush draws. if that's not the case with this player, then things may change, but i'm not sure we can get JTo's equity up to 50% even.

http://www.pokerstrategy.com
Board: 4hTs3s5sJd
Equity Win Tie
BU 29.45% 29.45% 0.00% { JTo }
BB 70.55% 70.55% 0.00% { 55, 33, T5s-T3s, 53s, AsKs, AsQs, KsQs, AsJs, KsJs, QsJs, As9s, Ks9s, Qs9s, Js9s, As8s, Ks8s, Qs8s, Js8s, 9s8s, As7s, Ks7s, Qs7s, Js7s, 9s7s, 8s7s, As6s, Ks6s, Qs6s, Js6s, 9s6s, 8s6s, 7s6s, Ks4s, Qs4s, Js4s, 9s4s, 8s4s, 7s4s, As3s, As2s, Ks2s, Qs2s, Js2s, 4s2s, A2o, T5o, 54o, AsTd, AsTh, AsTc, As5d, As5h, As5c, 7d6s, 7h6s, 7s6d, 7s6h, 7c6s }

if we make the assumption that he never has a flush because he always x/r'es the flop with all of his flush draws, which is a pretty unreasonable assumption imo, we still can't get our equity up to 50%. this is with other unreasonable assumptions like he never slowplays a flopped set, or he can't have a turned set.

http://www.pokerstrategy.com
Board: 4hTs3s5sJd
Equity Win Tie
BU 45.14% 45.14% 0.00% { JTo }
BB 54.86% 54.86% 0.00% { 53s, A2o, T5o, 54o, 7d6s, 7h6s, 7s6d, 7s6h, 7c6s }

we can get our equity up to 50% if we make the assumption that villain always slowplays T4s and T3s. but now with all these assumptions, villain doesn't fit the description of a good player anymore.

http://www.pokerstrategy.com
Board: 4hTs3s5sJd
Equity Win Tie
BU 50.40% 50.40% 0.00% { JTo }
BB 49.60% 49.60% 0.00% { T4s-T3s, 53s, A2o, T5o, 54o, 7d6s, 7h6s, 7s6d, 7s6h, 7c6s }

i think raising the river is bad.

oh, here we go. here's one that works for us.

http://www.pokerstrategy.com
Board: 4hTs3s5sJd
Equity Win Tie
BU 56.71% 56.71% 0.00% { JTo }
BB 43.29% 43.29% 0.00% { T4s-T3s, 53s, A2o, T5o, 54o, AsTd, AsTh, AsTc, As5d, As5h, As5c, 7d6s, 7h6s, 7s6d, 7s6h, 7c6s }

i only have to add 6 combos of flushes to villain's above best case scenario range to get our equity down below 50% again.

http://www.pokerstrategy.com
Board: 4hTs3s5sJd
Equity Win Tie
BU 49.69% 49.69% 0.00% { JTo }
BB 50.31% 50.31% 0.00% { T4s-T3s, 53s, AsKs, AsQs, AsJs, As9s, As8s, As7s, A2o, T5o, 54o, AsTd, AsTh, AsTc, As5d, As5h, As5c, 7d6s, 7h6s, 7s6d, 7s6h, 7c6s }

to those of you who want to raise, i'm really having a hard time understanding what kind of range you're assigning this villain.

I couldn't agree more....we'll said


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JT seems like an easy call. I'm not sure if it would be worth raising even if you knew what to do when villain 3-bets, but since you think it's close it has to be just a call.

AK i'm more tempted to raise but if you think folding to a 3-bet might be a big mistake (given the fits of lunacy description) it has to be a call too.

+1