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Turn semi bluff? Turn semi bluff?

11-05-2014 , 11:12 AM
The villain is BB. He seems to be a TAG. He has CR a bunch of flops. I saw second pair the one time he showed. No other reads. He sees me as tight.

I open KTo in hJ and only BB calls.

9d6s4h I bet, BB CR, I call.

9d6s4hJc. BB bets....what's my play
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11-05-2014 , 11:28 AM
I think the 12 combos of 87s, T8s, and QTs are enough bluffs on this board. I'd call the turn.
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11-05-2014 , 12:22 PM
i have started checking back this low connected board texture when i have naked overs against players who c/r aggressively
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11-05-2014 , 01:17 PM
i call, and plan on calling ace and board pairing rivers.
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11-05-2014 , 02:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by epdog2005
i have started checking back this low connected board texture when i have naked overs against players who c/r aggressively
I feel like we need to add some balance to this range so that we aren't advertising to this guy (who from a limited description seems competent) that we're on weak overs (though this is a good board texture to check back as it hits a defending range hard, not so much a HJ open range). Maybe hands like A6/97 make good check to raise turn hands, and maybe x/give up a hand like J8s (obviously until we turn gin with it).
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11-06-2014 , 07:33 AM
I like raising the turn with specifically KTo (16). A merit for raising instead of calling is a bunch of scare cards (K,Q,T) may scare villain into checking the river as it clearly smacks our range.

We can have sets (12), 9j (9), TT (6), QQ+ (18), J[T,Q,K,A] (48), 97s/98s (6), 9[T,Q,K,A] (48) = 147 value combos on the turn. I guess I can assume some of us likes to fast play and b/3b some hands. Ok fine, we still have like 130+ value combos. Clearly we also need some bluffs to offset our value combos.

If villain is k/r'ing middle pair, I don't think that's enough bluffs for us to put king high into our bluffcatching range. peeling turn/mucking river UI seems too big of a waste with this hand.
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11-06-2014 , 08:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by epdog2005
i have started checking back this low connected board texture when i have naked overs against players who c/r aggressively
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdr0317
I feel like we need to add some balance to this range so that we aren't advertising to this guy (who from a limited description seems competent) that we're on weak overs (though this is a good board texture to check back as it hits a defending range hard, not so much a HJ open range). Maybe hands like A6/97 make good check to raise turn hands, and maybe x/give up a hand like J8s (obviously until we turn gin with it).
I agree hand vs. range wise, this flop smacks the defender's range way harder than it smacks our ugly KTo. I just really don't like checking back this specific flop with KTo since a) that'll probably mean we're going to check back too many hands (and to balance that we'll have to check back a lot of value hands) and b) KTo has little equity on this flop. I rather cbet/call KTo and a5s as a bluff in order to balance my cbet range. I can utilize by folding most turns or continue/get creative when I hit my extra straight/flush outs. Now with hands like ATo and maybe even A2s, I probably benefit the most by checking back the flop and seeing that free turn card.
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11-06-2014 , 11:10 AM
Call.
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11-07-2014 , 05:07 PM
absolutely raise the turn. then check the river if you whiff. better yet, 3bet the flop.
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11-08-2014 , 12:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodeo
absolutely raise the turn. then check the river if you whiff. better yet, 3bet the flop.
completely disagree. what hands are you trying to get to fold? and 3betting flop is always bad.

Last edited by steveistheman84; 11-08-2014 at 12:14 AM.
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11-08-2014 , 12:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveistheman84
completely disagree. what hands are you trying to get to fold? and 3betting flop is always bad.
Ax, 9x, 6x, 4x, 77, 88. saying something is always bad seems a little narrow-minded. don't knock it until you try it.
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11-08-2014 , 12:27 AM
3betting any flops hu ip IS though.
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11-08-2014 , 12:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveistheman84
3betting any flops hu ip IS though.
but how will you take a free card on the turn, if you don't 3bet the flop?

Last edited by rodeo; 11-08-2014 at 12:33 AM. Reason: i'm going to come down to reno and b/3b the flop vs. you, check back the turn, and raise river to own your soul.
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11-08-2014 , 12:39 AM
i don't. need something to balance my value range.
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11-08-2014 , 12:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveistheman84
i don't. need something to balance my value range.
expand your mind, breh, not your range. keep your range tight.
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11-08-2014 , 03:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveistheman84
3betting any flops hu ip IS though.
heuristics, bro.

Last edited by rodeo; 11-08-2014 at 03:15 AM. Reason: sorry, steve, you got caught in the crossfire.
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11-08-2014 , 03:39 AM
ok. i can't do it. it's childish and dumb, but all of my previous posts ITT were me trolling.

call the turn.
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11-08-2014 , 01:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodeo
absolutely raise the turn. then check the river if you whiff. better yet, 3bet the flop.
Can you explain your thinking here? This seems awful!
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11-08-2014 , 03:20 PM
I get it.
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11-08-2014 , 03:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdr0317
I feel like we need to add some balance to this range so that we aren't advertising to this guy (who from a limited description seems competent) that we're on weak overs (though this is a good board texture to check back as it hits a defending range hard, not so much a HJ open range). Maybe hands like A6/97 make good check to raise turn hands, and maybe x/give up a hand like J8s (obviously until we turn gin with it).
this is a good point JDR .... can't you just also not worry about balance in your checkback range, but instead just focus on knowing exactly what the range is, and thus you can know what the top is (what you have to calldown with enough, and what the bottom is (what you can get away from)

in other words - i used to worry more about trying to put some other hands in there, but now it kinda makes more sense to focus more energy on just knowing my range real well (do you see what i'm saying?)
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