Seeing that he thought about the turn, if we want to spew we should 4-bet the turn and bet a non-spade river.

I think DD is actually to much of a sicko to bluff raise this river. I think it's a much better line for worse players to take
To borrow your phrase from earlier, if were in small blinds spot and get raised here, I think we pretty much have to take our medicne and cry call AQ.

Pretty gay spot. Villain is never 3-betting a worse hand than yours here. You have 3 outs some of the time and are drawing dead the rest.

Tough spot. Against someone who isn't so good, I think you can make a pretty decent exploitative fold here. Against villain as described, cry call down but I don't like it. For those who find a fold here, what's the worst hand you are going to call down with (assuming you don't have a spade), because I think AK is clearly a call down here.

you guys don't think villain can have A6. A4? Idk feel like live poker guys sure like to make exploitative play. I would never consider folding turn after raising. Also another riv Spade would be quite interesting in villian spot.

If I had a strong hand here, I'd want to strengthen my turn calling range rather than put my hand into the bucket that contains literally zero marginal hands

Never?! You're such a nit these days :/

Really? Both Death donkey's and villain's ranges are super wide up until they raise and 3bet the turn respectively. Does villains range really go from his whole preflop 3betting range to AQ+ that quickly? And, for that matter, wtf is DD's turn raising range here?

Obviously the turn action defines their ranges quite a bit, I'm just not sure it is or should be as stark as you say.

4! Pre on bu with giant fish in pot pot favor!
His range is still crazy wide, especially since bb will take a bunch to the face preflop right?
Wait I want to fold now.

So, Basically you only beat him if he thinks you will frequently bluffraise or raise light on similar turns and have been doing so which would give him a reason to 3! bluff the turn.
If you have not R/f 'ed any turns v. him, can one make a fold on this one.
a crusher can when it's right.

I question how wide the sub bets the turn here into two players when ace of trump hits

Agree with everything CrazyLond. If we have a strong value hand (eg flush), this is an obvious 4b spot on the turn. Delaying will cost us a lot of value if a scare card comes on the river. Which bucket contains no marginal hands? We can 4b! bluff turn with dry K or 78 as you mentioned. The fish also helps pad our equity on our turn semi-bluffs (strong hands also get more value from fish by 4b'ing the turn).

On the river, possible straights, full-houses, and 4-flushes will appear. Our call-turn-3b and raise-river value-range can be mostly these, along with some delayed flushes/sets. The more wet the turn is, the less we need to delay.

PF, with a fish cold-calling, 4b for value.

I've been playing 10 handed poker up in the mountains too long :-(

I think DD's turn raising range here is all flushes, two pair, Ax's and sets, maybe I'm wrong. I think DD's raise is always for value and never a bluff with the fish still in the pot.

What's the worst hand you guys would 3-bet as villain here? I feel like if villain had A8 here and 3-bet that would be bad imo. I'm thinking AQ with a spade, maybe AJ.

I think it's a tough spot because we only beat a bluff and villain only needs to be bluffing like 1/10 to make it awesome for him if we are just constantly paying him off when we are dead.

I could certainly be wrong but I could def see the appeal of 3betting AT in this spot since you're able to face the fish with two cold.

Also DD is bluff raising 87 with a spade here at least sometimes and maybe mostly. I'm not exactly sure what his value range is but he's obviously aware that the ace is a good card for you to barrel with your range.

I'm cool with capping all good Ax preflop and only raising the turn with Aces up+ for value.

If we cap pre, only raising aces up, or as played, only raising aces up?

Does DD have a capping range pre flop with the expert in the hand?

I'm pretty sure DD doesn't cap anything here, but he can correct me if I'm wrong. Is this an 80 game that runs at CAZ?

it's likely 80 at Bellagio, which runs during WSOP time (or it's 1-2)

much wider. air should be firing here as bb and dd have a hudge range and will be folding often enough.

I don't see a reason not to cap good hands pre in this spot.

As played, still just call down. We have a fish padding the pot which is nice. However, what's good player's continuing range? He could be bluffing(or semi bl) and we get value from fish (or both), good. He could be betting worse for value and we get value from both. But his better hands crush us and I think there are too many of those to re-open action. Imo the good player will and should be checking pp and 9x a decent amount trying to showdown/see what happens.

Correct. There may be a time where raising this turn is a good play, but doing so when we don't know how to handle a 3-bet isn't one of them.

Never capping here is a mistake.

I disagree.

AcJc is strong enough to cap for value. However, I think it would be best to sacrifice whatever marginal value we have pre flop so that we can capitalize on our positional advantage post flop. This makes things more difficult for SB and allows us to see the flop, and raise for value or play our hand as a draw were applicable.

In no limit (where I have most of my experience), there is some logic to the thought that if you don't know how you would respond to a reraise, don't raise.

Maybe if we are having such a tough time on the turn now that we are facing a 3 bet, I wonder if the turn raise is a mistake. I get that we are letting the drooler draw cheaply, and that we may very well have the best hand, but the river will be fairly easy to play. If a spade comes we are done, if he bets again into 2 people on a blank, I think we can just call down, and if it's checked to us, we can confidently bet here.