I mean we are talking about a hand and situation in which there is no way whether we call or fold preflop our EV is positive or negative more than a tiny tiny tiny amount. If its a mistake, its one of the smallest imaginable poker mistakes (and its not like if someone folds it I can say "wow you are throwing away all this money" either, they might be throwing away a couple pennies in the best case). So my basic thought is at this price preflop matters very little and folding isn't fun at all and its good for my image to show these sort of hands down

Stox & Grudzien recommend playing ATC in a 5 or 6 handed pots and support their reasoning by odds of flopping two pair or better (i.e. they imply that hand should be folded on the flop most the time if flopping less than that). So basically you now say that this can be relaxed to 4 handed pots because... people started to play more loose? Or is this more because of the specific lineup of people involved in the pot as described in the OP?

As we discussed on the phone, you're correct. It's a little more complicated, since I am losing to (with 2 outs only) the full 49 combos of pocket pairs from the UTG raiser. He also has all manner of unpaired **** in his range that will usually fold if I 3-bet. At game speed I felt that the parlay of being ahead of both of them AND dodging all their outs was just too much, given that I'd be fully punished when behind. But still, you're right.

My main mistakes here were undervaluing my "kicker" (I'll chop with most 6s anyway by the river), and assessing the tag fishy lady's range poorly (she just can't have 99+, and probably doesn't have A6s). Then I made a horrible fold, as is my custom.

I think preflop is a call in this specific case for a combination of few good reasons:

1. Price. I am getting 7:1.

2. Closing the action. It will always only cost 1 more bet.

3. Position. My relative position on the flop, where the bet is very likely to come from either my left, or the tag fishy lady after the pfr checks (in which case he'll be very unlikely to c/r).

4. The presence of the whale in the SB.

The hand I'm trying to flop here, aside from two pair plus, is bottom pair or a gut shot. The setup I have means I'm going to be able to profitably see a turn card when I flop those hands a good percentage of the time, and win a few big bets when I do convert them (or see a free river card).

+1

my thoughts on pf are that i would call in alot of 6max spots where the raiser is a couple pips lighter and we don't have a weak-tighty tag coldcalling first in. here we have one ok player with a tight range, one great player with a medium-tight range and one fish who often isn't going to give us a chance to exploit him considering the action will often go bet/raise in front of him as it did here and he'll end up folding right away.

so reasonably tight ranges plus low frequency of mistakes being made postflop make me lean toward fold. but, this is just an intuition and i likely call at game speed cuz lol35handsperhour

For those that call 63o in this spot, what are you folding?

offsuit hands that can't flop a straight or don't have a high card. Generally high card being Q+

So you play approximately 85% of hands in this scenario? Seems high, but what do I know.

Edit: I mean, 85% of all hands, but you're 3-betting some, so more like 80% or so.