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Strategy in must straddle game

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06-19-2016 , 08:37 AM

DeathDonkey

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This came up tonight, we were playing a full ring LHE game w a mandatory straddle. A common spot that comes up is you are the big blind and a late position player raises to 3 bets and its folded to you. I am torn between the fact that we want to play a lot of hands here for two more bets (would imply a call wide and disguise big hands strategy) and the fact that getting the straddler to fold for two more bets is a huge win (argues for a 4 bet wide strategy). Thoughts ?

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06-19-2016 , 09:06 AM

mongidig

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I would think the call strategy would be better. How often do you expect the straddler to fold? you would have to tighten up significantly to start a 4 bet strategy. You may still face a 5th bet OOP.

I would also say that if the 3 bettor is an expert, I'd prefer not to bloat the pot OOP.

I think you could throw in a 4 bet in situations were the straddler is more likely to fold and the 3 bettor is not going to take advantage of his position compared to an expert.

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06-19-2016 , 10:17 AM

LessLurkMorePost

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 631

I think you're unlikely to face a 5th bet if the straddler does fold (and in some casinos there's a 4bet cap anyway).

That said, I think you should have a 4bet range. It's not THAT dissimilar from being SB and having BB still in the pot. Yes, straddler's odds are different than if he were BB facing 2 more in a regular hand, but the LP raiser is going to have a pretty similar range, which means you can still play a decent number of hands here for 4 bets.

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06-19-2016 , 10:31 AM

OnTheRail15

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For me if there's a good chance the straddle will fold, I think you have to 4bet your whole range. It's just too valuable to have that dead money in the pot.

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06-19-2016 , 10:33 AM

prototypepariah

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Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 2,151

I jam in this spot since everyone is looking for excuses to play.

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06-19-2016 , 10:33 AM

steveistheman84

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Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 1,438

i guess this is assuming all players at the table are good? if that's not the case, looks like balance isn't really an issue and there's so many factors that can be combined to make any balance/default plays needlessly and overly sub-optimal.

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06-19-2016 , 10:39 AM

Bob148

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I'd 4 bet or fold until I got a better read on the opener. If he's opening tigher than I think he should be, then I'll continue to 4 bet or fold. If he's opening looser than I think he should be, then I'll have 4 betting, calling, and folding ranges.

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06-19-2016 , 11:55 AM

phunkphish

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Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 2,902

Have a raising range and a call range.

If your when you put in 5 bets it is a cap / possible cap, that is an even stronger reason to have a "4b range."

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06-19-2016 , 12:40 PM

chillrob

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Isn't this essentially the same spot as a regular game when you're in the SB and the button opens? I mean the amounts in the pot are a bit different, but if you would normally play that spot reraise or fold, it seems like you would play this one the same way. The straddler's calling odds are not as bad as they are in the typical BB's situation, but if you just call, you're still letting him in awfully cheap.

Just noticed LLMP said almost the same thing as me, oh well...

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06-19-2016 , 12:46 PM

#10

Montrealcorp

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Quote:

Originally Posted by mongidig

I would think the call strategy would be better.

I would also say that if the 3 bettor is an expert, I'd prefer not to bloat the pot OOP.

I am not sure about that.
I mean once the pot gets to a certain size, the equity becomes more important than position since anyone got the odds to go to the river with a good hand, denying a lot the advantage of position imo.

Ps: yeah right after i wrote this , rob posted. Totally agree with rob

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06-19-2016 , 01:04 PM

#11

Jon_locke

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Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 4,180

I don't think you want to call your whole range here, given the possibility of getting to 6 bet pre-flop (assuming you can 6 bet pre in a straddle?) Opener may 5 bet wide once the straddle comes along

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06-19-2016 , 01:30 PM

#12

mongidig

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Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 5,654

The buttons 3 bet range against the straddle is gonna be way wider than a normal 3 bet situation. I'm thinking we should have a call range since we will want to get in there with a lot of hands that we don't wanna cap. I would cap the stronger part of this range if I felt the Straddler woukd fold.

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06-19-2016 , 01:43 PM

#13

Bob148

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Quote:

Originally Posted by mongidig

The buttons 3 bet range against the straddle is gonna be way wider than a normal 3 bet situation.

I think it should be even wider than a raise from the same position without a straddle because of the price of the investment.

standard blinds: I'm investing 2sb to win 1.5sb = 57% investment.

with straddle: I'm investing 3sb to win 3.5sb = 46% investment.

Although we have an extra opponent in the latter example, I think it's clear that a wider than normal raising range should be used when there's a straddle.

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06-19-2016 , 01:51 PM

#14

stinkypete

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Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheRail15

For me if there's a good chance the straddle will fold, I think you have to 4bet your whole range. It's just too valuable to have that dead money in the pot.

Yuup.

If you think of it as similar to a LP raise vs sb/bb situation but with bout 3.50 extra bets in the pot, it's easy to see if straddler is folding anywhere near as much as he would fold the BB against LP/SB 3-bet he's making a huuuuuuuuudge mistake.

Obviously if he never folds you can call a lot.

Last edited by stinkypete; 06-19-2016 at 02:02 PM.

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06-20-2016 , 05:22 AM

#15

prototypepariah

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon_locke

5 bet cap stays at bell.

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06-27-2016 , 07:33 PM

#16

NickMPK

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Quote:

Originally Posted by prototypepariah

5 bet cap stays at bell.

I played at Bellagio last week and the dealer allowed 6-bets preflop in a straddled pot.

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06-27-2016 , 08:01 PM

#17

steveistheman84

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Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 1,438

i don't normally play bellagio, but i'm pretty sure that's wrong

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