Playing 20 this weekend for the first time in months... and that time was the first time in months... tl;dr I don't play a lot.

Anywho. Game is mediocre but the gentleman to my right is playing most hands and playing them poorly to boot.

Folds to CO who is one of the stronger players in the game - reads hands, isn't too spewy, etc. and opens. His steal range is definitely on the wider side - previously raised my BB with 69o, J3s, etc. but I don't think it's personal; he just likes to try and steal blinds cause that's what the kids do.

SB is aforementioned player and calls, I 3-bet ATin bb. CO caps (unexpected) and it's three ways.

A23
SB checks
I lead
CO Calls
SB calls

J
SB checks
I bet
CO raises
SB folds
I call

6
I check fold

I wouldn't 3 bet preflop.

I wouldn't donk flop.

I'm not sure what I'd do on the turn, but I'd never get there like this.

Preflop I can go either way but as played you should check and call three times. Flop donk doesnt really make sense

Preflop seems pretty standard given your reads here. Your flop play is not standard, but I'm actually ok with it. If CO has something like JdTd or 8s8h, I'd be ok with him folding to our donk rather than bet/calling (if we c/r). He also may very well raise with a hand like JJ-KK. And by donking we generally make sure that bets go in on every street, but no more than 2 on the flop (unless SB wakes up with a hand of course).

The way you played it, I'd calll down.

why call the turn if youre gonna check fold the river. What are you trying to hit, a 10?

Folding the river is terribad.

I'm less convinced that checking the flop is necessarily so much better than donking. I mean, with the wet board, I don't want this to check through. I still prob. check flop, because our read says that CO is very likely to bet. But I don't think the donk is a disaster (but folding river is).

Name a hand in our range that's worse.

I see. I agree that, given our PF raise / call, and flop lead, we have essentially the bottom end of our range. And I guess we're WA/WB, so we should aim to get cheaply to S/D, whereas a flop donk could lead us to getting raised, which would: a) cost more $ to get to S/D, or b) lead us to fold a hand with a solid amount of equity. That makes the flop donk bad.

thanks.

hit information. He put you either on ace, flushdraw or stupid bluf. Flush completes and he keeps betting.

Thanks, everyone.

Out of curiosity - what hand would you play the same way as opponent that is worse than AT on this river?

3-betting pre here is pretty bad.

Donking the flop is also bad.

im curious what are the arguments against three betting preflop? we have a hand thats clearly ahead of the other two players ranges, why not juice it up?

Keeping ranges wide induces action from players, and more than likely we collect the same $ on the early betting rounds if we do flop an Ace and are ahead.

We protect our weak BB defenses and make our check raises on this texture less polarized.

We exploit the fact that every villain as described in OP is an auto-cbet monkey and will fire liberally 2-3 ways.

We avoid playing a hand with weak showdown value and not a ton of flop potential in a bloated pot.

To be fair, if there's a set of opponents where 3 betting can be good, it's probably the guy who opens J3s from the CO and the guy who habitually takes 1.5 to the grill.

Don't hate pre - opener is a spazball who previously opened 69o in the CO. SB range also likely decapitated. Tough to know what to make of his PF cap though.

Don't hate flop donk. Can't rely on spazball to lead out Ahi flop. Want to make sure at least 1 bet goes in on flop.

Re: where we are on our range: we can have A5s/A4s in our donk range that's worse. But, when playing against a spaz, it's fine to call down with all of our value range, since villain might be over bluffing.

I like the pre-three, but I go in C/C mode after the flop.

If you lead the flop, and called, are you leading the turn, or checking? I think perhaps checking the turn as played.

There's only 12 bets in before the flop. Back-doors, and 2-outers we want to call for another bet, because those are about 20-1, and the pot would be laying 13-to-1.

I was referring specifically to pocket pairs with a backdoor flush draw and stuff like JdTd, which have more than 2 outs. That said, you are probably right that we prefer them bet/calling to folding. My claim was just that it wasn't a travesty if they did fold.