20-40 HE, full table. I have been folding steadily for the last hour while the mouth breathers at the other end of the table have been opening constantly and 3 betting each other regularly. UTG raises. An hour or so previously he opened K6cc UTG and I called him down with KJo high to a river 6. UTG+1 cold calls, he's provided a lot of the table action lately and likes to make "thin raises" with anything from middle pair to two bad cards. MP1 3 bets, he's been more conservative than the others, but still plays too many hands.

I cold call button with 7d6d. BB folds, surprisingly. Flop Kc6c4s. Check, check, check. I shrug and bet. Fold, fold, MP check-raises. I 3 bet, he calls.

Turn 8s. He check/calls.

River Ts. Check/check.

You fold for a hour and then decide to take 3 to the face with 7high?
Seems bad

3betting the flop is just opening yourself up to lose the max and you're never folding out a better hand so just call down and raise if you improve. also fold pf

Close. A check-raise there from the PF aggressor, who has no idea whether I'll bet or not, is overwhelmingly a draw, and not necessarily a good one. At the time I was pretty sure I was ahead, so the 3b.

But I'm a dog to two big clubs, or middle pair, so 3 betting the flop is premature. I think my line should have been call flop, raise any blank (or beneficial) turn, folding to a 3 bet, and call on most bad turns (Ac might be a fold), and evaluate river.

I don't think folding pre flop is bad, but 76s likely had 22-23% equity, more equity vs. their ranges than T9s. I also had the button, dead money from the blinds, and they play bad, the combo is a reasonable invitation. Paying 3 bets for a speculative hand is expensive, but it's an easy hand to play that is unlikely to be dominated by theirs, owns low flops, and they are likely to pay off extra bets when I make the best hand, while I can fold easily, so little RIO, lots of IO.

(lots of IO) / 3 = what they said.

I don't hate pre-flop, though I wish there were a couple of more people in the pot.

Postflop, though, I have a general, philosophical suggestion about weak made hands against overaggressive players: just call them down.

The reason to do this is because when you take an aggressive line, you are going to be vulnerable to bluffs AND being taken to valuetown when he actually has something or makes something.

He screwplay x/r'd you on the flop. You have showdown value. He's likely to 3-barrel his entire range into you. Just call down. That line is maximally exploitative against these types of players.

This is accurate, in the case where their ranges are tighter and I am an equity dog, im paying an equity tax and hoping to recoup it using IO. But in this case ranges were so wide I was getting a fair price, and IO were gravy.

Good points.

Is this some kind of leveling war that goes on at CAZ? 'cause this logic doesn't make sense to me.

If he were on a draw, it makes more sense to bet than to try to attempt a c/r that requires someone to bet, you to c/r, and then them to fold. All while investing more money.

Leveling war is probably a bad term, just bad players taking bad lines. but out of tempo lines do in fact seem to be air (or a draw) far more often than it should be. They just always seem to Show up with like A-10 here (and occasional Kk).

It's like they miss the flop and check, then change their mindset mid hand and decide to run a bluff.

I can't tell how LAG MP is from the description. You say he's more conservative than the EP opener and cold-caller, but you also say you put him on a draw and not necessarily a good one when he checkraised the flop.

In any case, I'm really not seeing the point of the proposed turn raise-fold on certain cards. Why are we trying to charge Villain for his semi-bluff? Do we think he's going to give up on it and check-fold if he misses on the river?

Also, unless we know that Villain never 3-bet (semi)bluffs the big streets, it seems like we're needlessly giving power back to his bluffing game by taking a line that involves folding a showdown-value hand. (And since improvement on the turn is one of our conditions for a potential raise, it sounds like sometimes we'll be raise-folding two-pair and trips, too .)

Wow seems to me that preflop, flop, and turn are all spew.

Do you really take three to the face with 67suited pre?

I'm really confused in this hand. Did you call 3 cold pre? is this a mis-post

Why did you 3b with middle pair? Even if he has the Ac-7c> fd you're still behind bro. I would c/c c/c c/f this hand post.

famous last words
i do

I just really disagree. Passive calling drawing poker is loosing poker. (Im talking about PF here not post).

I think if you 4b - although really screwey - would be better to exploit your super "tag" image and MAKE these guys HAVE a hand. Plus if you won THEN you'd really be up in their heads! Then you'd add some spice to your TAG image, range, and meta-game. Gosh - isn't this all basic stuff? ANyhow, I think if you did that then we'd have a conversation.