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In which a player too good for 20 tortures a player who thinks he's too good for 20 In which a player too good for 20 tortures a player who thinks he's too good for 20
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12-28-2014 , 02:42 PM
#1
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20 Holdem, SB spends most of year making a living as a winning online LHE player, is in town for holidays. BB somehow found way to casino despite any evidence of active brain functions.

I open Ad4d button, SB 3b, BB calls, I call.

Flop AJTcc SB bets, bb folds, I call.

Turn 4h SB checks, i bet, he C/R, I call.

River Ts, he bets I?

Comments on all streets will be given equal gratitude/derision as they merit.
In which a player too good for 20 tortures a player who thinks he's too good for 20 Quote
12-28-2014 , 03:20 PM
#2
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He probably never has A9 but I still don't think I fold.
In which a player too good for 20 tortures a player who thinks he's too good for 20 Quote
12-28-2014 , 04:43 PM
#3
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I guess call and hope to chop with A4 suited. Can't see anything else you beat, but the pot's big and I guess there could be a WTF hand or two somewhere in his range.
In which a player too good for 20 tortures a player who thinks he's too good for 20 Quote
12-28-2014 , 05:19 PM
#4
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i call. think dude should have enough bluffs in his range. river does look like a nasty card to barrel unless he thinks you can end up folding KJ or something, though.
In which a player too good for 20 tortures a player who thinks he's too good for 20 Quote
12-28-2014 , 08:06 PM
#5
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I would 3 bet turn because I think he'd be more likely to have AK than a stronger hand because I think he'd want a chance to bet-3 bet his strongest hands. I cry call river.
In which a player too good for 20 tortures a player who thinks he's too good for 20 Quote
12-28-2014 , 10:06 PM
#6
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I folded which I think is a mistake given how strange his line is. He should be leading his strong hands on turn on wet, scary board. He can c/r strong hands occasionally, but there has to be more than a few bluffs in that range. Also he probably views me as the right kind of nitty, passive to get more folds out of.
In which a player too good for 20 tortures a player who thinks he's too good for 20 Quote
12-28-2014 , 11:00 PM
#7
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What bluffs? Agree with crazylond but I fold river
In which a player too good for 20 tortures a player who thinks he's too good for 20 Quote
12-28-2014 , 11:14 PM
#8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertCat
20 Holdem, SB spends most of year making a living as a winning online LHE player, is in town for holidays. BB somehow found way to casino despite any evidence of active brain functions.

I open Ad4d button, SB 3b, BB calls, I call.

Flop AJTcc SB bets, bb folds, I call.

Turn 4h SB checks, i bet, he C/R, I call.

River Ts, he bets I…..
…..don't win.
In which a player too good for 20 tortures a player who thinks he's too good for 20 Quote
12-29-2014 , 12:05 AM
#9
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Do you remember if the ace of clubs was on the board?
In which a player too good for 20 tortures a player who thinks he's too good for 20 Quote
12-29-2014 , 12:16 AM
#10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyLond
I would 3 bet turn because I think he'd be more likely to have AK than a stronger hand because I think he'd want a chance to bet-3 bet his strongest hands. I cry call river.
You don't beat AK on the river.
In which a player too good for 20 tortures a player who thinks he's too good for 20 Quote
12-29-2014 , 12:47 AM
#11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RunnerMan
You don't beat AK on the river.
True hoping for flush draw or chop with A9 or something at that point
In which a player too good for 20 tortures a player who thinks he's too good for 20 Quote
12-29-2014 , 01:37 AM
#12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathDonkey
What bluffs? Agree with crazylond but I fold river
55/99/KK, etc
In which a player too good for 20 tortures a player who thinks he's too good for 20 Quote
12-29-2014 , 05:14 AM
#13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathDonkey
What bluffs? Agree with crazylond but I fold river
LoL?

You are an internet pro. Villain is described as an internet pro. Surely you must realise that a pro could have value hands and bluff hands (i.e. be balanced) in any given spot.
In which a player too good for 20 tortures a player who thinks he's too good for 20 Quote
12-29-2014 , 05:19 AM
#14
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Assuming pro has a wide PF range, consider 4b'ing PF since your hand is decent, decent multiway, and noob gives you a nice overlay.

Flop: call is pretty standard. By default, I would happily calldown safe runouts and bet if checked to.
Turn: I'm guessing you considered 3b'ing. I'm hoping you also considered flatting and raising blank rivers
River: Instead, you get an awful river. Given your self-awareness of your own image, I think its a call.
In which a player too good for 20 tortures a player who thinks he's too good for 20 Quote
12-29-2014 , 12:48 PM
#15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phunkphish
LoL?

You are an internet pro. Villain is described as an internet pro. Surely you must realise that a pro could have value hands and bluff hands (i.e. be balanced) in any given spot.
On this river we fall drastically in our distribution. It does not strike me as a board where villain will check raise bluff many hands. It seems like suicide against a range that can continue on AJT
In which a player too good for 20 tortures a player who thinks he's too good for 20 Quote
12-29-2014 , 01:31 PM
#16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathDonkey
On this river we fall drastically in our distribution. It does not strike me as a board where villain will check raise bluff many hands. It seems like suicide against a range that can continue on AJT
Meh. If villain is a leet pro, he should have some bluffs or semi bluffs on this texture. It is double suited and connected -- lots of bluffing candidates.

In terms of our distribution.. We still beat most bluffs/semibluffs save the times he turns Tx into a bluff. Are you saying the worst hand you call here with is AQ? That's seems way too tight. Are you saying you would choose to call A9 but fold A4? That also doesn't seem right. A4 blocks fewer semibluff combos of 79/89/78. A4 does block combos of the same hand, but I would discount this a bit since villain may often check behind his own A4.
In which a player too good for 20 tortures a player who thinks he's too good for 20 Quote
12-29-2014 , 03:15 PM
#17
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It's kinda tough to think of what a good turn check raise range looks like since we don't know which card is offsuit on the flop.

I'd call the river and hope to see Q9, K9, K8, K7.

If the Ace is offsuit, then that gives many more value check raise combos like AK, AQ, A4, AX, AJ and AT. If the J or T is offsuit, then I think the only value check raise combos that I like are KQ, AJ and AT.
In which a player too good for 20 tortures a player who thinks he's too good for 20 Quote
12-29-2014 , 04:00 PM
#18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathDonkey
On this river we fall drastically in our distribution. It does not strike me as a board where villain will check raise bluff many hands. It seems like suicide against a range that can continue on AJT
Really? You said you 3bet turn with this hand (I don't). So what's your distribution look like here?
In which a player too good for 20 tortures a player who thinks he's too good for 20 Quote
12-29-2014 , 04:53 PM
#19
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Another possible discussion about this hand:

If I call flop it is with intention to raise blank turns but a couple people disagree with me and think we should just call down whole way.

I think this is too passive with wideness of preflop ranges and we should be planning to raise top pair at some point in this hand.

Having said this, it's been pointed out to me that I probably bluff too much in general, so I feel like I need to make thinner value bets/raises than some other people to compensate.
In which a player too good for 20 tortures a player who thinks he's too good for 20 Quote
12-29-2014 , 07:03 PM
#20
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I like how you played it and I'd call the river
In which a player too good for 20 tortures a player who thinks he's too good for 20 Quote
12-29-2014 , 07:05 PM
#21
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If villain 3 barrels, do you really like your hand enough to raise river with a rag?

How many worse hands will call a turn raise + river bet?
In which a player too good for 20 tortures a player who thinks he's too good for 20 Quote
12-30-2014 , 01:16 AM
#22
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Whenever a bunch of people say one thing and DeathDonkey says the opposite, I just assume he is right.
In which a player too good for 20 tortures a player who thinks he's too good for 20 Quote
12-30-2014 , 02:42 PM
#23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mubsy Bogues
Whenever a bunch of people say one thing and DeathDonkey says the opposite, I just assume he is right.
I think I'm more apt to side with BBB here but I'm willing to be told I'm wrong.
In which a player too good for 20 tortures a player who thinks he's too good for 20 Quote
12-30-2014 , 03:10 PM
#24
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3 bet the turn. Why? Because it becomes easier to fold if he comes over the top.
In which a player too good for 20 tortures a player who thinks he's too good for 20 Quote
12-30-2014 , 03:58 PM
#25
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If we're going to blindly appeal to authority, OTR is no slouch himself, and he disagrees with DD.
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