20/40 9 handed.

UTG and CO are both mid 30's and Asian. They play at least 80% of hands. They are both agro with their open raises but more selective when others have entered the pot. They both chase. They are both pretty straight forward on the big streets.

CO seems to be decent. Probable TAG but small sample size. He has 3 bet several hands pre but didn't showdown.

I have a tight image.

UTG open limps, folded to CO who raises, Button calls, folded to me and I call 8c5h? I definately call here with 86o. UTG calls.

Ac7c5h...I check, UTG checks, CO bets, Button calls, I just call? UTG folds. I don't think there is much fold equity and I think the value of my draw went down when the button called the flop.

Ac7c5h3c...how would you proceed?

The buttons call on the flop feels like a draw. I think he would Raise an Ace and would not slow play a monster but who knows.

Maybe I'm a nit but I fold preflop and the flop.

Our hand has bad reverse implied odds preflop and on the flop.

As played, I would chk fold turn and river if cutoff bets.

Is the TAG the BTN or cutoff???

If preflop raiser/cutoff is one of the bad asian, you can chk call turn but seems awful with the TAG still in the hand.

Didn't notice you had a 8 hi club flush draw on turn. In that case, I'd chk call turn if cutoff bets and button folds. Would check fold turn if cutoff bets and BTN calls.

Even with flush re draw, I still chk fold flop not closing action.

Is cutoff a TAG or does he play 80% of hands?

I'd probably check call turn either way.

Sorry..I meant Button is a probable TAG.

Man just fold pf.
You do not make money , when 2 very bad player are in, by making yourself the same mistake they do by playing so much garbage hands when the pot get raised.
Those small costly mistakes add up pretty fast.
Just tighen up and pound on them postflop ( and pf depending of course) .
80% of hands and play straighforwardly? .....
I hate online poker!

I would call turn and c/f river if tag still in the hand .

I agree.

How much more of a hand would you need to call? 86o? 97o? Maybe.

87o yes
97o depends if i tilt or not
98o for sure yes

But for offsuit connectir 87o is the very bottom of my range here

Nits. 85, 75o 74s, 64o, 63s, 54

Imo it is not about being nitty, it is about you do not need to play bingo with hand like 74o with horible player in , especially when a tag is in the hand.
Just need tighen up a bit and clear the easy money instead of increasing you standard deviation to increase such a low ev gain with bad hands.
They are playing like 80% hands, a lot of better spot will come along without giving them free money by playing horrendous hand pf.

And yeah, i did not win a bracelet like some ...

Agree, we make money by not making same mistakes as bad players. We call with 85o becuase they 4 bet you with AK on the 852 flop

Man, i might move to US and play live cause i never see anywhere near those situations where i play.

Your post reads a lot like "but we can wait for a better spot!" when it should read "we have an ok spot now!"

Comon, 74o an ok spot 4 way ...

How many flop you really think will go check/fold.
Since they almost always go to river, on the rare time we hit a flop the chance we get oudraw multiway with a pairs so low is huge ...

We should be able to pawn them easilly without the need to play trash for sure with such a wide range they play with.

I would have no problem ever to like complete in sb these hands of course, but not calling raises with them multiway.

Blind battle sure why not but not in multiway situations.

They leak money pf, why would do you the same mistake, just to pawn them postflop, pretty hard when it is not HU.

How many time we try some standard line multiway and it never go the way we tought it should, even more so with bad players which tend to be erratic .

Imo to beat those bad players it is not to make the same mistakes they do by calling too wides raises and play bingo but just to expand by a lot your raising range when they limp and 3bet them much wider knowing they will make lot if mistakes postflop.

I think it is fine as long as you c/f the turn.

-hf

don't believe I said I'd play 74o. And yes it's an ok spot. This isn't no limit. You don't need to wait for a perfect spot. If you're good you're not going to do anything stupid. Play a marginal hand, hope to flop something, and trust the two idiots will do something worse than you do.

Getting 7:1 preflop, it's fine to call if you can play well postflop but you should definitely have a game plan for run outs such as in OP's hand.

I don't think I play that well enough and I'd rather lower my variance rather than calling 2 big bets if you take into account 1SB to call preflop, 1SB to call flop, and 1 big bet to call turn.

If this is shorthanded, you can get run over for being a nit but I've done better in ring type games folding the weak offsuit 2 gappers like 74o, 85o, etc.

Getting 7:1 in BB I would call with like 53o+, and most suited hands but in my small sample in last year playing 20/40 recreationally, I've done better folding the weak two gap hands. That's partly because I don't play well enough postflop but games I play live have enough fish where I think I'm not leaving top much money on the table.

It barely matters if you play well if you can do basic poker math. In OP's example you're just losing. You just are basically always and it usually becomes obvious when you're ahead. There is very poker that needs to be played. You're just playing the pot odds and cross your fingers game. Which you should be better than then the two bad players

I just think pair plus FD is too much equity to fold turn for 1 bet.