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A passive line A passive line

10-05-2015 , 03:21 PM
20/40 must move.

Villain: Based on total several sessions Hero has played Villain is very loose and aggressive at some spots, especially preflop. 100% C-bet and do check back turn in position against me. He could bluff here and there and is capable of 3-barrel bluff. Definitely not brainless and not lack of confidence supported by knowledge...

Hero: playing a solid session so far. Against Villain Hero has been playing straightforward in all the past sessions against Villain, except the following: 1. Hero always calls his raise at BB. 2. Hero always wait until turn to CR with big hands. Hero assumes Villain noticed these.

In the hand below Hero will always call down with weak Ace. Once in a while Hero will donk river UIed.

Preflop: 6 or 5-handed. Villain opened at CO and folded to Hero at BB with QQ. Hero called.

Flop: A K 4 rainbow
c/b/c

Turn: 8r
c/b/c

River: 4

c/b/f

I am not sure if folding on river is right and if I should have folded on turn against Villain...
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10-05-2015 , 03:52 PM
If he's capable of a 3-barrel bluff (or value betting a hand like JJ on the river), seems to me you have to mash the call button 3 times.
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10-05-2015 , 04:16 PM
Call river against this but not all villains.
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10-05-2015 , 08:24 PM
Call against villain who is "loose and aggressive" and who "can 3-barrel bluff"
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10-05-2015 , 11:40 PM
I may be leveling myself...What caused me to fold is that Villain doesnt blindly bluff and I never in any situation made a tough fold against him so far. He must be thinking about my calling on such a board up to turn, which are lots of Ax or Kx (I called only before flop). He would check back lots of inside draw on turn against me.

Is this enough to alter our call decision?
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10-06-2015 , 01:47 AM
If villian knows you defend 100% of your range in the BB it is very unlikely he is bluffing in this spot. Also I would muck turn as u observed he tends to usually check behind weak hands which has been the one constant among LHE regs.

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10-06-2015 , 01:49 AM
If he doesn't bluff why would you call?

If you change your mind to think he may bluff, count how many combos he bluffs and compare to how many value combos he bets and let that (and the pot) determine if you should call. You can try keeping/removing your "would check draws on the turn" read.

It's a very simple exercise that will teach you how to calculate these things and give you a feel for how far off you are either way.
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10-06-2015 , 03:18 AM
I think your play is fine and I might fold turn
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10-06-2015 , 12:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6MaxLHE
If villian knows you defend 100% of your range in the BB it is very unlikely he is bluffing in this spot. Also I would muck turn as u observed he tends to usually check behind weak hands which has been the one constant among LHE regs.

Sent from my LG-D415 using 2+2 Forums
I think OP meant that he does not 3 bet from BB.

If OP meant that he calls 100% preflop in this spot, it is a pretty big leak.
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10-06-2015 , 12:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chasqui
If you change your mind to think he may bluff, count how many combos he bluffs and compare to how many value combos he bets and let that (and the pot) determine if you should call. You can try keeping/removing your "would check draws on the turn" read.

It's a very simple exercise that will teach you how to calculate these things and give you a feel for how far off you are either way.
Assume Villain's range 36.65% (Total 486 Hands) 22+,A2s+,K4s+,Q7s+,J8s+,T8s+,97s+,87s,76s,65s,A2o+ ,K9o+,Q9o+,J9o+,T9o

On turn 300.5 Hands beat Hero's QQ (ties with the other QQ)

185.5 Hands for potential bluff...Among the 185, the following two portions have to be discounted.

Villain would check back turn often with inside straight draws like he did before, about 54 hands in this portion.

Hands like 66-JJ, he probably check back some of them. Assume 50%, that is about 15 hands.

This ends up with 117 Hands left for Villain to bluff. The value vs bluff odd of Villain's turn bet 2.57 : 1. This is lots of bluff of course.

Villain's turn bet lays a 3:1 pot odds for Hero to call.

River card doesn't change things much, but the odd becomes 5:1.

Seems like folding on turn is close. On river it is closer to call than fold?
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10-06-2015 , 01:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by clicker
I think OP meant that he does not 3 bet from BB.

If OP meant that he calls 100% preflop in this spot, it is a pretty big leak.
Sorry, I did mean what you mention above. Thanks for clarification on this! Btw, have you met any player who calls a raise at BB 100%, even against CO?
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10-06-2015 , 03:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PocketKings
Assume Villain's range 36.65% (Total 486 Hands) 22+,A2s+,K4s+,Q7s+,J8s+,T8s+,97s+,87s,76s,65s,A2o+ ,K9o+,Q9o+,J9o+,T9o
Quote:
2. Hero always wait until turn to CR with big hands. Hero assumes Villain noticed these.

In the hand below Hero will always call down with weak Ace. Once in a while Hero will donk river UIed.
Related to whether you made the right turn/river fold with QQ, I think your flop strat needs some review.

I think A2o, having 70% equity, should be in the kr flop bucket. I would not wait for the turn with monsters since you lose out on high EV fastplay lines. Good money to be made when you cooler him. I would value kr as widely as I could, add in bluffs, and think about giving up initiative on the turn and river. Your Kx seem to play well as kc kc kc hands. And you have all of them. So QQ now seems close, contrary to my gut reaction. Nice post.
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10-06-2015 , 04:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PocketKings
River card doesn't change things much, but the odd becomes 5:1.

Seems like folding on turn is close. On river it is closer to call than fold?
There's a cliche in poker that "if I am going to call the turn, I have to call the river".

Obviously there are plenty of situations where it is false, but I don't think this is one of them. If you are going to fold, fold the turn. I wouldn't fold, though.
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10-06-2015 , 09:34 PM
is he two-barreling 100% on the turn in the hopes you have a broadway gutshot draw?
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10-06-2015 , 10:49 PM
This is just a really tough spot. Sometimes I call soemtimes i fold, sometimes I fold turn for various stupid reasons.

Lots of river decisions will come down to how often and what KX hands he value bets here. Versus those that take a free shakedown with Kx I'd be apt to call more
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10-07-2015 , 10:28 AM
Would we ever try to check-raise river as a bluff? (Not necessarily with this hand, but in general?) If so, would we be targeting Kx or worse hands?

If the answer is we think we are targeting Kx, I think QQ might be a candidate to bluff with as it is seems to be close to the top of our folding range.

If we don't think he folds Kx, but will fold worse value hands, then the hand we are bluffing with should be something worse than QQ. But if it is profitable to bluff with that worse hand, then I think that means he has enough worse value hands that QQ should be a call. I mean it doesn't make sense to bluff with a worse hand and then fold QQ.

If we don't think we should ever bluff the river and we are going to fold QQ to a river bet, I think this makes him barreling his whole range 3 times quite profitable, which doesn't seem good for us. I think it is ok against villains we can trust to be value oriented and incapable of making that adjustment, but I don't think it applies to this villain.

I think once we get to the river, we should call.
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10-07-2015 , 05:06 PM
Based on the posted ranges, if he 3 barrels the river with the same range as the turn we are close to EV neutral on the call down, so I'm on board with the "sometimes calldown, sometimes fold the turn/river" based on the flow of the game at the moment (his image, my image, etc)

I doubt many villians fold a K to a river k/r based on the popular "whatever principle" (aka I beat all the draws)
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