Hand 1:

A weak player limps in late position and I raise the cutoff with A-2hh. sb folds and bb calls, limper calls. 3-way action

Flop: Jh-10h-4o Both check, I bet and both call
Turn: 6o Both check and I....?

Both these players are loose and passive, and would call the flop/turn with any pair and any draw. I'm not sure if I should be betting or checking here. We have no fold equity against these opponents, but our hand still does have strength due to the ace and the nut flush draw, although not the requisite 33% if 1 bet went in each on this street (is this correct?). Should I be betting lower flushes with no show down value? Although in this exact spot there wouldn't be many lower flush draws that didn't also have a straight draw to go along with it.


Hand 2:

I raise cutoff with Ah-8d. Only the big blind calls

Flop: Jh-9h-2h He checks, I bet, he calls
Turn: 9c He checks, I.....?

Here is it better to check back and bluff catch/value bet all rivers, or just bet the turn because our hand is still probably best and we will get calls from lower hearts? Again as in hand one, if I had a weaker non-showdownable hand I would just bet the turn but here I'm not sure

thanks!

check
bet

Agree w Steve

Are we bet folding the second hand?


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+1, seems standard and would not fold to a raise on 2

Why not bet the turn hand 1 ?
We have sd value
All the draws miss
We have around easy 10 outs ? ( might not be enough for value but considering we have a freee look at river it's great for 1 bet ,no ?)
And if 1 bet goes in I rather it goes limp on the turn than the river 3 way.
And 1 of them might fold a better hand no ?

If I am way off here than I have a huge leak right there !

Steve!!

The presence of two hearts in our hand make our opponents more likely to have a pair as combinatorically, the presence of 2 hearts in our hand and especially the Ah drastically reduces the # of flush draw combos; someone who plays ATS sees their total FD combos drop from 55 to 36, and a selective player has almost no combos with the Ah, Jh and Th accounted for). The turn card is such that we never generate folds from better (think about how often you want to put spewy calls in when they're never good, and you think generic 20-40 players might fold a pair on the turn?). Really, we're just charging ourselves to draw when we could see a river instead. If we want to bet, bet a hand like 8h7h, because that actually stands to benefit from barreling.

Good post jdr