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Much Madness is Divinest Sense

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08-07-2015 , 10:52 AM

OnTheRail15

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 4,339

Game is playing very loose passive preflop and quite spazzy postflop, especially on the flop. My image is LAG showdown monkey probably.

SB is loose and bad preflop and postflop, but not out of her mind.

Button is experienced but also quite bad. Ranging from bad-tag to loose-passive to passive-spazz depending on his mood. He's probably been in the bad-tag camp mostly today.

Cutoff is a bad LAG/TAG.

MP and MP+1 are both Loose Passive

I open AdAh UTG. MP calls. MP+1 calls. CO calls. BTN calls. SB calls. BB calls.

Flop 346dd

Chk. Chk. I chk.

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08-07-2015 , 11:17 AM

jdr0317

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 8,231

This hand seems too strong to not be bet-3 betting, no?

Like even if your cbet on this board = overpair, a player w/ CO or BTN's description will still try to freecard / cheap showdown raise quite often, right?

Or do we want a safer turn card (like 3

or a broadway) before engaging in war?

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08-07-2015 , 12:38 PM

CrazyLond

veteran

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2,932

I don't think there's any reason to do anything weird here. Even though it's a big pot, I'm not really trying to set myself up to protect my hand because we have the huge redraw. I feel like more of our equity here comes from the nut diamond draw than the pair. I'm just trying to get as many people in the pot for as many bets as possible and I think betting accomplishes this best.

I'd like the play a lot more if you didn't have the diamond.

Edit: oops, thought there were 3 diamonds on board. With only 2 diamonds I think it's fine. With a late better I'd check raise the flop but if the guy on your left bets, I'd check raise the turn.

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08-07-2015 , 01:29 PM

drbk2

adept

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,153

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheRail15

Not something I would have done so it's probably correct

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08-07-2015 , 03:22 PM

avoidthe9to5

[x] 9to5 avoided

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 1,662

nh otr, i play same. I x + call flop too about half the time.. xr the other half. love it.

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08-07-2015 , 04:20 PM

jesse8888

Yes, you barred

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 16,685

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheRail15

Medium Bob: what would I do with AK? Check................(scoops $4500 1/2 pot)

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08-07-2015 , 04:23 PM

jesse8888

Yes, you barred

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 16,685

Quote:

Originally Posted by avoidthe9to5

nh otr, i play same. I x + call flop too about half the time.. xr the other half. love it.

Thing is in this game against these opponents..... I'm not sure that's needed.

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08-07-2015 , 06:20 PM

LHELHELHE

centurion

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 165

Quote:

Originally Posted by avoidthe9to5

nh otr, i play same. I x + call flop too about half the time.. xr the other half. love it.

Hi avoid -
I'm trying to understand the thought process of strong players

what is your reason for the 50% of time you check-call this flop? Do you think you don't have the best hand now? Or is this for balance purpose?

More questions:
1) what is your plan for non diamond non straight completing turn card?

2) would you do the same if you have TT-KK (let's say you have the diamond in all cases)

Trying to learn, thanks!!!

edit: opss I too misread the post and thought it was a 3 diamond flop

Last edited by LHELHELHE; 08-07-2015 at 06:23 PM. Reason: Misread post

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08-07-2015 , 06:21 PM

jdr0317

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 8,231

I mean if you're going to make an expert slowplay on the flop, this is clearly the hand in our range to do it with. It's pretty sweet when we can get hands like KJ to put two bets in on the 1-1 installment plan, and even more fun when they improve on the turn.

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08-07-2015 , 08:22 PM

#10

lawdude

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 10,305

Quote:

Originally Posted by LHELHELHE

Hi avoid -
I'm trying to understand the thought process of strong players

I think part of the theory here is that if you check this flop, everyone puts you on ace-king (which is what everyone always has on this flop anyway). And the other part of the theory here is that nobody actually ever flops a straight or 2 pair on this board. So this is probably one of the best opportunities to get people to put money into the pot with hands that are crushed.

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08-07-2015 , 11:06 PM

#11

Stack

adept

Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 873

Expert slow play against these caliber players? Why?

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08-07-2015 , 11:13 PM

#12

Stack

adept

Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 873

Quote:

Originally Posted by avoidthe9to5

nh otr, i play same. I x + call flop too about half the time.. xr the other half. love it.

Half the time overall, or half the time against this specific lineup?

I mean, don't give me wrong. I learned something from this post. I can see how awesome this line is because we check this flop with a good portion of our range.

But against this lineup I just bet for value, and expect a small pocket pair to raise so I jam. Versus these players, it may even get checked around some non-zero percent of the time.

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08-08-2015 , 06:48 AM

#13

Rooksx

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 5,478

Find this thread kinda amusing because if OP was some random guy, everyone's response would be "lol bet you noob, wtf".

Admit that I don't get the flop check. You have a strong hand against 5 bad players in a large pot on a low-card board. The two LPs are behind you. Just bet and they'll find some reason to call. Flush and straight draws are going to call so why allow them to draw free?

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08-08-2015 , 12:59 PM

#14

jesse8888

Yes, you barred

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 16,685

I think the idea here is that even against really bad players it helps to do stuff like this long term (so next time when you check they aren't sure you have AK) AND on this board with this hand lots of good things happen if we check.

Also....yes OTR gets credit for the fact that we know this is a change up for him.

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08-08-2015 , 04:14 PM

#15

jambony

journeyman

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 355

A lot of the comments on this thread look like people are trying to put a reason on something they're assuming is good/correct and I think some of those comments illogical/unrealistic.

I think there are situations to check AA as last preflop raiser in a multiway pot where you on average have a significant equity advantage. However, assuming these players are, on average, relatively unsophisticated (which is going to be the case in most live games), I don't think the situation you described is the right one to do it in.

I would just bet.

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08-09-2015 , 07:20 AM

#16

ZOMG_RIGGED!

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 17,504

I think it's gross. Even though it's all low it's still wet enough thy enough run outs will put in awkward spots. Why do people we care about letting KJ or something catch up? People are going to be peeling a ton anyway so just start charging them. I see no real point in doing any fancy. You're in a hand with monkeys. Just start betting and let them make monkey mistakes

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08-10-2015 , 12:23 PM

#17

steveistheman84

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 1,438

my guess is that you were running good at this juncture. i've made this exact play in this exact scenario before too. it checked around, i turned a set, i bet, everybody folded.

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08-10-2015 , 01:54 PM

#18

phunkphish

veteran

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 2,902

Too many loose passives for me to try this move.

Ideally we also want someone IP to bet, and have someone else raise it. The thinking is that if we cbet, our hand looks too strong and most hands will smooth. BUT if we check and let someone else bet, this greatly increases the chance that someone else will 2b, allowing us to 3b. IME loose passives won't bet when we want them to; they surely won't raise it either. With more aggressive players behind, it becomes a better play.

Last edited by phunkphish; 08-10-2015 at 02:00 PM.

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