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Old 06-01-2012, 01:49 PM   #1
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live 40 - not happy about turn

7 handed, UTG is very straightforward ABC fishTAG, SB is LP whale.
UTG opens, folds around to SB who calls, hero calls 97sc in BB
Flop QQ7r, check check, UTG bets SB folds hero raises UTG calls
Turn K
bet fold or check fold? (don't think check call is an option really)
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Old 06-01-2012, 03:40 PM   #2
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Re: live 40 - not happy about turn

Sorry for the short response and 0 logical explanation but I bet/fold.
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Old 06-01-2012, 04:20 PM   #3
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Re: live 40 - not happy about turn

I don't like the flop c/r and as played I'd bet/fold
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Old 06-01-2012, 05:28 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jesse8888 View Post
I don't like the flop c/r
Once we call the flop, what is our plan for the rest of the hand?
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Old 06-01-2012, 06:08 PM   #5
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Re: live 40 - not happy about turn

Quote:
Originally Posted by armor32 View Post
Once we call the flop, what is our plan for the rest of the hand?
Obviously b/3!/5!/7!/muck/throw hands up in the air/ask for new setup/quit.
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Old 06-01-2012, 06:25 PM   #6
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Re: live 40 - not happy about turn

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Originally Posted by jesse8888 View Post
I don't like the flop c/r and as played I'd bet/fold
1) Definitely check/call turn if you check/call flop. Re-revaluate river (see #3).

2) I also agree that the c/r flop is a slightly poor play as we are generally waiting for the turn to check raise Q's and the opponents's A7,AJ-AK will generally be c-betting this turn for value. A8-A10 could also be good cbets. I also think lower pocket pairs could cbet here as well although a check/call river is also a definite possibility.

3) -On a QQ7K board, I would generally fold most river cards given no reads vs this opponent.
-You could maybe check raise a 7 river and fold to a 3!.
-Also, I would fold to River A/J/10. 9 might hurt our hand as J10 gets there as well.

I would like to hear more discussion regarding #2 and #3 to see if people agree or disagree here. Overall, an interesting hand.
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Old 06-01-2012, 07:57 PM   #7
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Check/decide is fine but cc twice is probably not good against a weak playing live reg.
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Old 06-01-2012, 07:58 PM   #8
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Obviously b/3!/5!/7!/muck/throw hands up in the air/ask for new setup/quit.
but you were not the villain....
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Old 06-04-2012, 09:20 AM   #9
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Re: live 40 - not happy about turn

why c/r flop ? :O as played b/f
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Old 06-04-2012, 01:09 PM   #10
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Re: live 40 - not happy about turn

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Check/decide is fine but cc twice is probably not good against a weak playing live reg.
This. I think the c/r on the flop and betting the turn as the last $ you put in the pot is fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMightyDuck View Post
1) Definitely check/call turn if you check/call flop. Re-revaluate river (see #3).

2) I also agree that the c/r flop is a slightly poor play as we are generally waiting for the turn to check raise Q's and the opponents's A7,AJ-AK will generally be c-betting this turn for value. A8-A10 could also be good cbets. I also think lower pocket pairs could cbet here as well although a check/call river is also a definite possibility.

3) -On a QQ7K board, I would generally fold most river cards given no reads vs this opponent.
-You could maybe check raise a 7 river and fold to a 3!.
-Also, I would fold to River A/J/10. 9 might hurt our hand as J10 gets there as well.

I would like to hear more discussion regarding #2 and #3 to see if people agree or disagree here. Overall, an interesting hand.
You're giving a straightforward tagfish way too wide of a 2barrelling range. He is the type to fear the worst when he's c/c'd on this flop, which is why you shouldn't wait 'till the turn with Q's vs him.
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Old 06-04-2012, 02:42 PM   #11
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Re: live 40 - not happy about turn

I don't really understand the flop C/R. I don't see how its for value. Are we hoping villain folds hands like AJ, KJ, etc to a turn bet on a brick?

If he's really straightforward, whats wrong with Ch/C twice and folding a lot of rivers?

As played, I'm not sure I like Betting the turn, he's only folding a hand like A9s maybe worse PPs. Never folding a better hand or a hand like AJ/AT. So a bet doesn't really accomplish much. If he's really straight forward, I think we could maybe Ch/Fold.
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Old 06-04-2012, 05:26 PM   #12
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Re: live 40 - not happy about turn

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Originally Posted by DMightyDuck View Post
3) -On a QQ7K board, I would generally fold most river cards given no reads vs this opponent.
-You could maybe check raise a 7 river and fold to a 3!.
-Also, I would fold to River A/J/10. 9 might hurt our hand as J10 gets there as well.
I agree with your last point about broadway cards, but really, there are rather more deuces, treys, fours, fives, sixes, and eights in the deck than there are aces, jacks or tens. No way am I folding on the river to these cards versus an unknown. I might be more likely to fold versus a "fishTAG," which, I'm guessing, means among other things a snug opening range and weak-tight play on later streets. I think check-calling all three streets is the way to go, unless our pair gets counterfeited or maybe with another broadway card on the river (where we fold) or we fill up (where we k/r).

I hate the flop check-raise. We have a decent showdownable hand; we want to get value from villain's unimproved ace-highs, and I think we get more of that value by calling the turn and river or by leading the river if the turn checks through.

As played, we have to bet/fold the turn.

Nobody is commenting on preflop; seems marginal at best to me, even with good relative position and the SB sweetening the pot.
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Old 06-10-2012, 12:59 AM   #13
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Re: live 40 - not happy about turn

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Originally Posted by AlanBostick View Post

Nobody is commenting on preflop; seems marginal at best to me, even with good relative position and the SB sweetening the pot.
i agree with this, thought it was a fold on my first read of the hand.

but you get like 22% equity on pokerstove vs. a 13% raising range and a ccing range for the whale of tons of suited and other middlin card (that came out to 36% of hands). so i guess that should be plenty to call for 5-1 closing the action.

would you call alan?

curious what others think.
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Old 06-10-2012, 01:42 PM   #14
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Re: live 40 - not happy about turn

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i agree with this, thought it was a fold on my first read of the hand.

but you get like 22% equity on pokerstove vs. a 13% raising range and a ccing range for the whale of tons of suited and other middlin card (that came out to 36% of hands). so i guess that should be plenty to call for 5-1 closing the action.

would you call alan?

curious what others think.
I used this equity estimation actually to advocate calling PF, especially given post-flop equity edge I expected to have vs other two villains in the pot.
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Old 06-10-2012, 11:00 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armor32 View Post
7 handed, UTG is very straightforward ABC fishTAG, SB is LP whale.
UTG opens, folds around to SB who calls, hero calls 97sc in BB
Flop QQ7r, check check, UTG bets SB folds hero raises UTG calls
Turn K
bet fold or check fold? (don't think check call is an option really)
Grunch
If the villian utg is really tight - which it Kinda sounds like he is ... then sometimes I fold pre. Its at the very bottom of ccing range anyhow.

I'd just call OTF and hope for a free card or free showdown. (Checked back river). I can see folding to a turn bet ... I just think we are smoked here.

As played I'd cbet after cring OTF. I don't like making that play and not following up with a cbet.
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