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03-06-2015 , 03:47 PM
Great game with a nice mixture of LAG's, TAG's, and Loose Fishies.

Villain #1 (LAG Indian has a wide range, cold calls 2 and 3 bets like it is his job, but reads hands exceptionally and plays well post flop) opens UTG+1.

Hero (TAG who is about 4 cognacs deep but still in control of himself) 3 bets with 8-9 spades UTG+2.

Villain #2 (Loose fishy Asian, ATC lets see a flop kind of player) cold calls 3 on the button.

Villain #3 (Older, grumpy white TAG) 4 bets from the SB.

Villain #4 (super loose younger asian, similar to Villain #2) Calls the cap from the BB.

All call.

Flop (20sb) JsJh7d. Villain #3 leads out from the SB, Villain #4 calls, Villain #1 calls, hero calls, Villain #2 folds.

Turn (12 BB) 7c. Villain #2 bets, Villain #3 folds, Villain #1 folds, hero calls.

River (14 BB) Tc. Villain checks, hero bets, Villain calls...end of story.

As suspected, Villain #3 turneover AA.

Any thoughts on folding or raising anywhere along the way?
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03-06-2015 , 04:26 PM
Prolly folding preflop
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03-06-2015 , 04:32 PM
Fold pre-, AINEC.

The remainder of the hand seems absolutely right to me, because if you raise, you are going to get owned by anything with a J in it and will be unable to fold with a full house in a gigantic pot.
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03-06-2015 , 05:34 PM
Thanks for the feedback. The 3 bet with 89 suited was a bit ambitious preflop given my position, but because Villain #1 has such a wide opening range, I felt that if I could get it HU, that I could blow him off any flops he missed in position with my otherwise solid image.

Of course that plan went out the window when the pot went off for 4 bets 5 handed.
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03-06-2015 , 05:43 PM
come on guys after four cognacs preflop is super standard.
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03-06-2015 , 05:52 PM
Too true...XO can make for some fun games!
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03-06-2015 , 06:57 PM
i agree with fold pre flop.
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03-06-2015 , 07:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodeo
i agree with fold pre flop.
Funny...I've seen more creative plays from you my friend
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03-06-2015 , 07:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jesse8888
come on guys after four cognacs preflop is super standard.
Interesting spot pre flop as I'd have to agree with this. I'd fold if I was trying to play my best and 3 bet if/when I was drinking (but still trying to win).

I'm a big cognac fan when playing as well, highly recommend trying a hennessy sidecar, definitely my drink of choice when playing.
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03-06-2015 , 07:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokerOnTilt
Funny...I've seen more creative plays from you my friend
the difference is, i know what i'm doing. zing!

seriously though, v1's range may not be as wide as you think. i know you've played far more hours with him than i have, but my observation is that the scope of his range is directly correlated to whether or not he's winning or losing. if he's winning, he opens wider. if he's losing, he opens narrower.

something not in the OP that should be considered is the deal you have with v1. that's something that should definitely be mentioned if your plan was to try to get hu vs. v1. and it may be more interesting from a strategic point of view than the actual hand that played out. would you care to share with the forum?
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03-06-2015 , 08:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodeo
the difference is, i know what i'm doing. zing!

seriously though, v1's range may not be as wide as you think. i know you've played far more hours with him than i have, but my observation is that the scope of his range is directly correlated to whether or not he's winning or losing. if he's winning, he opens wider. if he's losing, he opens narrower.

something not in the OP that should be considered is the deal you have with v1. that's something that should definitely be mentioned if your plan was to try to get hu vs. v1. and it may be more interesting from a strategic point of view than the actual hand that played out. would you care to share with the forum?
LOL...nice one

I think you are correct with your observation of V1's range relative to winning or losing. At the time, he had been on the usual roller-coaster of ups and downs hovering about a rack up I think.

The deal that we have with each other is we have to show each other our bluffs...which is super fun in a sadistic way
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodeo
the difference is, i know what i'm doing. zing!

seriously though, v1's range may not be as wide as you think. i know you've played far more hours with him than i have, but my observation is that the scope of his range is directly correlated to whether or not he's winning or losing. if he's winning, he opens wider. if he's losing, he opens narrower.

something not in the OP that should be considered is the deal you have with v1. that's something that should definitely be mentioned if your plan was to try to get hu vs. v1. and it may be more interesting from a strategic point of view than the actual hand that played out. would you care to share with the forum?
LOL...nice one

I think you are correct with your observation of V1's range relative to winning or losing. At the time, he had been vasila
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03-06-2015 , 08:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokerOnTilt
The deal that we have with each other is we have to show each other our bluffs...which is super fun in a sadistic way
i think the fact that you have to show each other your bluffs 100% of the time makes it interesting as to what hands to choose to 3bet this particular villain. does anyone think we should make any adjustments based on the deal?
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03-06-2015 , 09:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodeo
i think the fact that you have to show each other your bluffs 100% of the time makes it interesting as to what hands to choose to 3bet this particular villain. does anyone think we should make any adjustments based on the deal?
I will think about this.

But I definitely think that there shouldn't be adjustments made based on how much cognac Hero ingested. One of the many things I don't understand on 2+2 is why otherwise good poker players get drunk while playing for serious stakes. (I can definitely see the appeal of drinking while playing poker, but why not drop to cheeseburger stakes when you do it given that deliberately impairing your judgment is nearly certain to be big-time -EV?)
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03-06-2015 , 09:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawdude
I will think about this.

But I definitely think that there shouldn't be adjustments made based on how much cognac Hero ingested. One of the many things I don't understand on 2+2 is why otherwise good poker players get drunk while playing for serious stakes. (I can definitely see the appeal of drinking while playing poker, but why not drop to cheeseburger stakes when you do it given that deliberately impairing your judgment is nearly certain to be big-time -EV?)
I would agree with you on the premise of avoiding impaired play when drinking...I generally shy away from it at the table as well.

It was another player's birthday and many other's were imbibing as well. Having said that, apart from a little extra spunkiness, I still felt fine to play. Having said that, 3 betting my friend with holdings like that is probably closer to 10-20% of the time and closer to the button normally.

We do have fun making each other bleed though...so situations like this are definitely special circumstance plays we are both capable of when we are in pots together.
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03-06-2015 , 09:59 PM
Lawdude, I think you overestimate what drinking can do to a good players game an underestimate what having fun can do for a players Winrate. For example, if the whole table has 5-8 rounds of drinks I would likely murder the game, while most of the people would have far more fun than everyone being sober on their iPads.

Also to prove that you can drink and still play well, my best trip to LA we can do something fun like I get blackout drunk and we crossbook.
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03-06-2015 , 11:44 PM
I do not drink anymore, but I compare it with playing tired, as they say driving tired impairs your driving in a similar way as being drunk.

I believe that I can play close to my A game when a little tired, but that it drops off significantly when I get very tired. If I play a 14 hour tournament day, I will probably play my A game or close to it for the first 12 hours, but drop off significantly that last couple hours. I find if I work an 8 hour day, I can go and play well for 3 or 4 hours, but if I work a 10 hour day, I am really going to struggle to play well. Of course, it's very difficult to analyze one's own decline in performance and I'm sure these things affect everyone differently.

I think a big factor is how much experience you have playing a given game. I played exhausted last Friday. I got slaughtered in both hold 'em and OE, but I feel like my game dropped off a lot more in OE, where fewer of the decisions are automatic for me, due to my having much less experience in those games.

I think most people are more likely to underestimate how much playing while drinking or tired affects their game than overestimate it, just as most people overestimate how strong their game is in general.
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03-07-2015 , 12:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jesse8888
come on guys after four cognacs preflop is super standard.
Haha was going to post this exactly
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03-07-2015 , 02:38 AM
You can't follow up a TAG descriptor with"3! 98s UTG2."
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03-07-2015 , 02:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanS
You can't follow up a TAG descriptor with"3! 98s UTG2."
Touche...how about XO enhanced TAG playing against LAGgy friend
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03-07-2015 , 07:44 AM
ITT: "TAGs" 3-bet 9 high in EP
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03-07-2015 , 09:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokerOnTilt
Touche...how about XO enhanced TAG playing against LAGgy friend
Ohh welp in that case you probably have 85% equity against his range. WP.

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03-08-2015 , 12:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanS
Ohh welp in that case you probably have 85% equity against his range. WP.

50/50...I have him or I don't
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03-08-2015 , 02:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon_locke
For example, if the whole table has 5-8 rounds of drinks I would likely murder the game, while most of the people would have far more fun than everyone being sober on their iPads.
I'm not a big drinker anyway, but wouldn't the EV calcs depend on p(them drinking|you drinking) - p(them drinking|you not drinking)?
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