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Old 07-17-2012, 03:56 AM   #1
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Limped pot flopping a TP - lights, camera, action

Commerce 40, good loose passive game with a lot of limping and m-way pots.
EP: Asian loose passive lady
SB: degen
BB: unknown white guy, doesn't seem to be good but you never know
EP limps, hero overlimps J8 in HJ (?), CO and BTN fold, SB completes, BB checks
Flop (4 way, 4 sb): J23 SB checks, BB bets, EP calls, hero raises, all call
Turn (4 way, 6 bb): 4 SB checks, BB bets again, all call (is calling standard in hero's spot?)
River (4 way, 10 bb): T SB checks, BB bets, EP folds, hero ?
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Old 07-17-2012, 08:41 AM   #2
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Re: Limped pot flopping a TP - lights, camera, action

I don't love the overlimp pre, depending upon the people yet to act if I can raise and get it HU against the passive lady who should be easy to play against I am going to give that a shot, even if the sb degen calls we are in position against 2 players we probably want to play against.
I call the turn at game speed, but it depends upon the bb and what you have seen him donk flops with before, his donk/donk feels like a small flush that is afraid you will free card him, but its hard to say without history.
Call the river at this point, sb looks to be on a draw and will fold, plus the pot is laying you 11-1.
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Old 07-17-2012, 12:34 PM   #3
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Re: Limped pot flopping a TP - lights, camera, action

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I don't love the overlimp pre, depending upon the people yet to act if I can raise and get it HU against the passive lady who should be easy to play against
people left to act were cold calling two bets with any two playable (in their opinion) cards at the same speed they would call one bet. So I'd rather think this is fold or call spot, not fold or raise.
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Old 07-17-2012, 12:46 PM   #4
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Re: Limped pot flopping a TP - lights, camera, action

I don't like the over limp pre if CO or Btn are competent. Its probably fine is they are more of the loose/passive variety.

Don't know if I love your flop raise tbh. I think I prefer to just call and see a turn card before I start to push my hand.

As played, I don't think there is much you can do besides call down.
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Old 07-17-2012, 01:04 PM   #5
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Re: Limped pot flopping a TP - lights, camera, action

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Don't know if I love your flop raise tbh. I think I prefer to just call and see a turn card before I start to push my hand.
I am not sure that this "see a turn card" attitude is right. We have position, we are very likely to be ahead, getting more money in the pot to push the equity edge is the right thing to do IMO. I will know to fold / check behind if a bad card comes on the turn. What do you think ?
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Old 07-17-2012, 02:22 PM   #6
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Re: Limped pot flopping a TP - lights, camera, action

I'd love to overlimp with suited J8 if there were one more player already in the pot. I'm not thrilled with raising one limper with it (little showdown value; and two-gappers are low on the charts for implied odds), especially in a game where coldcallers are likely. I think I can find a fold preflop, unless I picked up an interest tell from CO or BTN.

I'm happy with the flop play but not with the situation on the turn. Yeah, I think we have to hate life and call the river bet, but we aren't going to win terribly often.
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Old 07-17-2012, 05:43 PM   #7
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Re: Limped pot flopping a TP - lights, camera, action

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I am not sure that this "see a turn card" attitude is right. We have position, we are very likely to be ahead, getting more money in the pot to push the equity edge is the right thing to do IMO. I will know to fold / check behind if a bad card comes on the turn. What do you think ?
I'm just not convinced we have an equity edge on this flop. If we do, I'm guessing its a relatively small one. When we're ahead we're generally only slightly ahead, but when we're behind, we're close to being crushed. I don't think a raise is bad. Its certainly close/defensible. I would raise a big J, say QJ/KJ on the flop in this spot (if we didn't iso for some reason,) or Jx with a diamond.

What kind of range are you putting BB on when he leads this flop? If I had to guess its probably Jx+, pair+FD, Big Diamond, Flushes, etc.
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Old 07-17-2012, 06:15 PM   #8
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Re: Limped pot flopping a TP - lights, camera, action

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Originally Posted by armor32 View Post
Commerce 40, good loose passive game with a lot of limping and m-way pots.
EP: Asian loose passive lady
SB: degen
BB: unknown white guy, doesn't seem to be good but you never know
EP limps, hero overlimps J8 in HJ (?), CO and BTN fold, SB completes, BB checks
Flop (4 way, 4 sb): J23 SB checks, BB bets, EP calls, hero raises, all call
Turn (4 way, 6 bb): 4 SB checks, BB bets again, all call (is calling standard in hero's spot?)
River (4 way, 10 bb): T SB checks, BB bets, EP folds, hero ?
PF: I'd like another limper in there before I limp J8 in HJ. I think I raised this spot last time (though it was an open raise so not apples to oranges), but given CO and BTN are probably just snap calling or snap folding anyway, whatever.

Flop: Fine, I'd raise this, too, now that you've gone from looking to flop big, to protecting a marginal made hand.

Turn: I like call. BB's play reeks of either 2-pair+, or the ole A. I don't see the value of a raise here. I could be wrong here, though, I suck at interpreting the donk-line.

River: Call, seems fine as well. Any raise from SB is probably a spaz-raise.
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Old 07-18-2012, 01:54 AM   #9
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A tad too loose pre IMO.

As for the flop I'd honestly prefer a call and raise safe turns line. Your equity "advantage" is nebulous at best.

Edit: it's not like the pot is large...
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