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10-24-2015 , 07:30 PM
40-80 live at Talking Stick:

Early position player I'm not familiar with open limps. Folds to me in SB, I complete with Q7 and expert big blind checks.

I like having an open complete range here because at 5-1 there are a lot of hands I want to play without bloating the pot out of position. I like to include some weaker Ax, Kx and Qx hands in my completing range here and I think Q7o qualifies.

Flop: A73

I check (I check my whole range here). Big blind checks and EP bets. I call.

I think a check-raise is maybe not unreasonable here. With the flush draw on board, I think there are a lot of flush and straight combos I am going to be tempted to check raise so I probably want to expand my value check-raising range also. If I am check-calling Q7, I am basically only check raising Ax plus for value. But maybe that's ok. Check-raising Q7 would be pretty thin and I'm not going to be comfortable barreling off all streets for value on many runouts. And it's nice having showdownable type hands in my check calling range.

Turn: 4

Turn checks through.

River 9

I bet for value. I think a few different lines might be considered on this river.
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10-24-2015 , 08:11 PM
which do you think is better, trying to squeeze value from 22, 55, 66, 67s, and 78s or checking to induce?
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10-24-2015 , 10:58 PM
Should mention I called flop in bb so 3 ways to river
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10-24-2015 , 11:18 PM
why do u check 100% of your range here? I think betting Aces, flush draws, and in this case I think betting your 7 is a better strategy.
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10-24-2015 , 11:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathDonkey
Should mention I called flop in bb so 3 ways to river
seems like this is a pretty important piece of information that was left out.
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10-24-2015 , 11:35 PM
pot is so small, i rather c/c here.
I would not actually c/r all my A here . (Maybe none at all )

Even more 3 way AND if BB in the hand, maybe he try to screwplay the EP or w.e. on the turn
i mean bet thin for value in small pot isnt that important imo

Unless you usually c/r all your A on the flop ?
Than you have to bet this hand for value imo

ps: maybe it is a leak but i like having a strong check/ call range in tiny/small pot.
i often pick up bluff in that spot tho

Last edited by Montrealcorp; 10-25-2015 at 12:00 AM.
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10-24-2015 , 11:37 PM
Oops sorry about that. Yeah bb called flop.
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10-25-2015 , 04:23 AM
x/r flop

As played nh.
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10-25-2015 , 05:46 AM
am i the only one that bets this flop 100%?
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10-25-2015 , 09:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NedSchneebly
why do u check 100% of your range here? I think betting Aces, flush draws, and in this case I think betting your 7 is a better strategy.
I try to avoid giving myself too many options for action in as many spots as possible. I think this helps with balance because I don't have to divide my range into too many parts. If I sometimes bet this flop, I need to think about what parts to bet fold, bet call, bet-3 bet, ck-fold, ck-call and ck-raise. By always checking, I now only need to think about 3 of those options.

If you bet the hands you suggest, I think it makes your checking range too weak and button can exploit you by betting 100% when you check (which even bad players have generally figured out). By checking 100%, their frequent strategy of betting 100% won't be effective. It is the same basic reasoning I check 100% if someone raises and I defend OOP.
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10-25-2015 , 09:50 AM
Montreal - I would ck-raise any ace on flop so I did feel like I was pretty close to the top of my range on the river since I won't have many 9x hands.

I actually don't have Ax very often after my pre-flop action. I did say in op that I like to complete some Ax but with DD in bb, I think the value of the ace combined with the chance to isolate EP is worth a lot. I may only leave a couple combos of Ax in my completion range.
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10-25-2015 , 06:59 PM
This is actually a very difficult spot and I think a lot of players would play this spot very differently.

Personally, I think if u find urself with a value bet on the river 3-ways in this spot then u missed value on earlier streets. I think ur hand is pretty strong (too strong of a bluff catcher), and you played it really passively.

Like with 3x, I'd just k/c flop and k/f turn. Or if turn gets checked around, I'd just k/f river.

With 7x where x is 5,6,8, I'd just k/c river as a bluff catcher if turn gets checked around.

With Ax, I'd k/r all of them on the flop as I think you give up too much value not to in a limped 3 way pot. I also think delaying any Ax for the sake of balance (or to bluff catch) is not a good idea in a 3-way limped pot.

I think that gives you merit to not check ur whole range on the flop. A lot of spots become too awkward if so. I'd probably spend some time off the table and determine how I would balance in a spot like this.

Also an "A" flop is very unlikely to hit BB. I guess it is more likely to hit EP, but I think you should enough Ax combos urself.

I personally like donking Q7 on the flop. k/r'ing Q7 does seem a little too thin to me and letting it get checked through also doesn't sound too appealing.
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10-26-2015 , 03:08 AM
I think Q7 makes a good x/r, bet, decide on the river, and would absolutely look to be x/r my Ax on this texture.
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10-26-2015 , 01:15 PM
I think all you guys are being way too optimistic. It's a tiny pot and villains range is probably fairly strong and inducing bluffs is nice. I think c/c on flop is reasonable. Kinda like check fold river and assume I win if it checks through.
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10-26-2015 , 01:50 PM
As played, I am k/c the river as this hand has a lot of showdown value. I would rather try to induce a bet than try to squeeze out a thin value call from either of the two opponents. I think that would make more sense had YOU represented a draw from the start (betting out, or K/R the flop) but as played, that "story" doesn't hold up on this hand.

I don't like giving my opponent 2 more streets to make his hand in this spot so I am either betting out or k/r the flop.
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10-26-2015 , 01:55 PM
Disagree with a lot of the comments in here.

-raising most Ax from the SB is too loose. That is close to a BTN open range. But now we are Oop, and limper has a stronger (though decapitated) range. Our range here clearly has to be tighter than our typical BTN open range. Raising most Ax also makes our flat range really weak on AHi/dry flops.

Trying to kick out BB is a bad plan. BB should be calling a raise a lot since its half price and he's IP on the aggressor. Better to anticipate BB calling, focusing on raising hands that have good equity 3way.

As played, limper still has the strongest range of any player. Donking 100% on Ahi flop is really bad. Donking most Ax/2nd pair is really bad, making our checks extremely weak. Checking 100% to limper's strength makes a lot more sense. One exception is if we stereotype limper as a passive type to never stab. In this case, we need to have a donk range since we can never induce and may want to protect the times we flop bottom or mid pair.
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10-26-2015 , 02:14 PM
A couple people have pointed out the small pot and I think it's an important consideration that I didn't really think about when I played the hand. So that's probably something I should pay more attention to going forward.
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10-27-2015 , 11:06 AM
I think this is a check raise situation almost all the time.
I think it is somewhat player dependent but a lot of limpers here will bet any two on this flop.
I think giving free cards to two overs is a mistake. It becomes easy to play them really well once we just call flop
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10-27-2015 , 07:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by phunkphish
Disagree with a lot of the comments in here.

-raising most Ax from the SB is too loose. That is close to a BTN open range. But now we are Oop, and limper has a stronger (though decapitated) range. Our range here clearly has to be tighter than our typical BTN open range. Raising most Ax also makes our flat range really weak on AHi/dry flops.

Trying to kick out BB is a bad plan. BB should be calling a raise a lot since its half price and he's IP on the aggressor. Better to anticipate BB calling, focusing on raising hands that have good equity 3way.

As played, limper still has the strongest range of any player. Donking 100% on Ahi flop is really bad. Donking most Ax/2nd pair is really bad, making our checks extremely weak. Checking 100% to limper's strength makes a lot more sense. One exception is if we stereotype limper as a passive type to never stab. In this case, we need to have a donk range since we can never induce and may want to protect the times we flop bottom or mid pair.
A large chunk of our range (KX, QX, and JX) missed this flop. If we are to check, are we check calling or check folding them?
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10-28-2015 , 04:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathDonkey
I think all you guys are being way too optimistic. It's a tiny pot and villains range is probably fairly strong and inducing bluffs is nice. I think c/c on flop is reasonable. Kinda like check fold river and assume I win if it checks through.
On the river, I'd fold if bb bets, but I'd call if the limper bets (given that we don't know the limper other than, well, he limps).
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