8-16 w/ 12-24 overs.

Hero has J9 OTB.

Folds to the MP who sucks and folds way to much- 2 bets. Everyone calls to me. I call OTB and BB calls . (12sb) 6 players

Flop K102

BB checks, MP bets and everyone calls I raise BB folds all call (21sb)
(See why I raised below)

Turn is a 9

MP checks all the way to me and I bet MP calls MP+1 folds HJ folds CO folds. It's now HU. (12.5 BB) and we both have 24$ bet overs now.

River: A

He bets I raise he calls I win. (Huge pot)

Now for the raise on the turn: I think it was a decent Semi bluff and QJ is well in my range here. Also the semi bluff ties in well with my LAG image for the session. Also I wanted more money in the pot so I would have odds draw you my straight and the backdoor as a hope and dream.

Point to the thread is do we ever pump up a pot on the flop or turn in multiway pots so we have odds to draw or is this loosing play.

Bold is a huge, huge, huge leak. I'll highlight an example of a hand I once played as to why.

Decent LAG opens EMP (w/ a wider than optimal range, hence LAG), a cold call, I 3! KQ, they call.

Flop AJxtt he x/r I call.

Turn brick I raise to get him off a weak Ace or Jx w/ FD. He 3 bets. Do the math; I'm getting 12.25:1 on a call now and given that he's unlikely to be rebluffing a FD against my represented range, my outs are clean. So, I now have to call. My questionable turn bluff put me in a situation where it's now profitable to call. However, that doesn't make the previous decision profitable.

To math-ify it, let's assume villain folds turn w/ P=0.05, or so rarely that my bluff just sucks. And that he three bets me w/ P=0.15, so P=0.8 that he calls. And let's make the false assumption that villain *never* has a draw, which is applicable when bet into on this texture in a multiway pot.

Fold:
0 obviously.

Call:
Since, in my hand, we've already decided villain has Ax minimum, we've 2/23 equity getting 8.25:1 and ~ 2 BB implied odds (assuming we can safely fold river in the example highlighted). This gives us an immediate EV of -0.022, making fold a marginally better decision. W/out IO, our immediate equity is -0.196 BB.

Raise:
We raise into a range that folds at 5% frequency, and our equity is the same against both his b/c and b/3 ranges (a dumb assumption obviously to say that our "outs" are the same v both ranges, but it makes the math much easier). Our immediate decision equity is:

8.25*0.05 + (9.25 * 2/23 - 2)*0.8 + (10.25 * 2/23 - 3)*0.15 = -0.394 BB.

Or think of it this way; if your never bluffing opponent bet 3 BB into a 7.25 BB pot and you had a naked gutshot w/ little implied odds and no fold equity, would you call this bet? If not, then why would you want to raise his 1 BB to 2 BB, so that you can call the third bet? Doesn't that sound spewy?

So for your hand in question, what are you trying to accomplish on the flop? A free card play? Well, you got it, and you got a nice turn card that gives you plenty of equity. Also, you want to play in ways that make people play poorly versus your range. Spew raising when everyone thinks you're spew raising isn't how to do it; you raise this flop with 22 if you want to exploit your image. Bloat and chase is a huge losing play, and you should only raise draws for two primary reasons:

1) You have the immediate equity against ranges so that you can justify raising for pure value (ex: QJs on T95r w/ BDFD 4 ways is an easy value jam).
2) You can generate folds often enough to go along w/ your equity (J9 on QTx against a range full of A-hi and PP <= 99, for example).

In this case, you're almost never taking this down uncontested, and you don't have the immediate equity to raise for value. So, your raise is a losing play.

Easy fold preflop.

Also, you didn't raise the turn as reported, so don't know why your comment mentions raising the turn. (Just reread, maybe you meant your raise on the flop).

Villain obviously plays horribly. Other guys probably bad as well. I still don't think this promotes J9o as a hand to play for two bets. If you were suited I would be ok with it.

fold pre.

as played, call flop.

as played, check turn.

river, what's your plan if he 3bets?

I mean what is there to say, you probably like gambling, plenty of people play like that, they are all recreational losing players, if you enjoy it do it, strategically it's awful. You don't have a "lag image" you are a lag fish, ask yourself if you care.

The money you put in the pot on turn and river together is your cost. Since your odd is long, you will need to win a lot more when you win for the additional money you put in on the turn. The additional win necessary is the turn bet times the odd of your wining the hand. It is a bad idea.

I think you are trying to hard to outplay people. This should be your strategy: preflop- is my hand good: if yes play it, if not fold. postflop- is my hand really good, if yes raise; if not, don't raise... is my hand ok, if yes call, is my hand bad, if yes fold.

Thats the magic strategy to beat the game

Next time just throw a $100 bill in the pot and you can chase even more profitably!

+1 Golden advise in multiway pots. It is that simple, really.

I commend OP for posting this hand that he likely knew he played bad and got lucky. He expected to be ridiculed and yes he did get an earful...
I think you are definitely on the right path when you ask questions even after a favorable result. Most players just think of their losing hands...

Words of wisdom from the man. Everyone makes adjustments in their game and everyone plays different. I'm glad I won the pot but won't be making the play again because it's a long term -ev play.

OP raises flop with GS in position planning for a free card as they feel they are unlikely to be 3bet.

Due to board texture and possibly a tell OP elects to semi bluff their improved draw rather than taking a free card, this works as the field is thinned to HU.

OP makes an excellent river raise for value.

Yeah, no.

This is like the story you hear about a whale playing nl who is faced with a huge all in bet and he has a flush draw without the proper odds to draw. What does he do? Tips the waitress $500 so now he does have the proper odds to call. Well played sir.

To expand on what Jon wrote.

If you go play, say, 40-80 at Commerce, you will find some very good players who do some very creative things to occasionally outplay other players and win a bet, or a pot. There are, indeed, extremely interesting exploitative actions in limit poker.

But here's the thing-- YOU CAN ONLY GET TO THAT POINT IF YOU PAY YOUR DUES, PLAY HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF HANDS, AND INTENSIVELY STUDY THE BASICS OF THE GAME.

If you don't do those things, you would be like a blackjack player who can count cards but doesn't know basic strategy. Or a golfer who can make brilliant shots with a sand wedge but can't drive or putt.

Even those good winning players at 40/80, the vast, vast majority of their winrates does NOT come from "outplaying players". It comes from math. Specifically, from playing hands that are likely to have more than their fair share of equity, and folding hands that aren't.

You need to start by learning to do everything right pre-flop, and attaining the discipline and bankroll management to sit there, over and over, at the poker table doing the same thing. And then learn the basics of post-flop-- betting good hands, playing draws, counting outs and pot odds, and semi-bluffing.

When you get amazingly good at all those things, after a year and a half of full time play or so, then come back and start thinking about specific lines you can take to exploit specific players.