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Old 06-23-2012, 01:50 AM   #16
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Re: KJ in BB: Bass Ackwards

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Originally Posted by AlanBostick View Post
They know that when defending my blind I will often peel and fold to a second barrel on the turn ... correctly exploitative turn bets when k/c on the flop.
Even 3-way?

- HU you want to protect your k/c range because you're only getting 5.7:1 so you need some equity-rich hands to balance your range. 3-way you're getting 8:1 and can unabashedly peel light.

- How often is BTN two-barreling for something besides value against two opponents?
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Old 06-23-2012, 02:53 AM   #17
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Re: KJ in BB: Bass Ackwards

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Originally Posted by callipygian View Post
Even 3-way?

- HU you want to protect your k/c range because you're only getting 5.7:1 so you need some equity-rich hands to balance your range. 3-way you're getting 8:1 and can unabashedly peel light.

- How often is BTN two-barreling for something besides value against two opponents?
The flop action was 3-way only to the extent that the SB check-folded. You're argument stands, sort of, but I'm only getting 6.7:1 to peel.
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Old 06-23-2012, 06:01 AM   #18
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Re: KJ in BB: Bass Ackwards

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Originally Posted by AlanBostick View Post
Folded to villain on the button. He opens for two bets. SB (Younger TAG, possibly a Black Friday refugee) calls, I call in BB with KJ. (Is this strong enough to reraise with a passenger in the middle? If I do, I throw away my postflop relative position.)
did you stove it?
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Old 06-23-2012, 09:19 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by AlanBostick View Post
Oaks 30-60. Full game with a couple of sweet spots. Villain in this game is a self-taught TAG, plays reasonably well but with some surprising leaks (e.g. coldcalls preflop way too often). Plays pretty much ABC postflop, with a very occasional Q or X thrown in.

Folded to villain on the button. He opens for two bets. SB (Younger TAG, possibly a Black Friday refugee) calls, I call in BB with KJ. (Is this strong enough to reraise with a passenger in the middle? If I do, I throw away my postflop relative position.) 5.7 small bets in pot after drop.

Flop: K96

SB checks, I check, villain bets, SB folds, I call. (I was concerned about the flop being dry enough that a checkraise would kill my action on later streets.) 3.8 big bets in the pot.

Turn: K96 8

I check, intending to check-raise....?
Grunch

Yeah I'd 3b pre. As played I'd just get the value in OTF with the Guy in the middle. He's gonna call the flop and not the turn a lot of the time so get the money in now IMO. Besides everybody thinks you're FOS when you raise thr flop LOL. If it were hu yup I'd wait to raise ott (sometimes otr) 100% of my range... but I'm kinda basic sshe Guy so I say get the monies in now! Besides wtf if it gets checked through
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Old 06-23-2012, 09:21 PM   #20
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Re: KJ in BB: Bass Ackwards

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Originally Posted by nonsimplesimon View Post
Grunch

Yeah I'd 3b pre. As played I'd just get the value in OTF with the Guy in the middle. He's gonna call the flop and not the turn a lot of the time so get the money in now IMO.
Guy in the middle folds before we even have the chance to check/raise.

(But I still c/r, of course).
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Old 06-23-2012, 09:24 PM   #21
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Re: KJ in BB: Bass Ackwards

Meh I'm indifferent re raising the pf vs flop .... prob pf a good most of the time.
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Old 06-23-2012, 09:26 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by private joker View Post
Guy in the middle folds before we even have the chance to check/raise.

(But I still c/r, of course).
Lol gotchya ... and btw this just proves why its better to 3! Pf dontchya think?
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Old 06-24-2012, 01:28 PM   #23
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Re: KJ in BB: Bass Ackwards

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Originally Posted by nonsimplesimon View Post
Lol gotchya ... and btw this just proves why its better to 3! Pf dontchya think?
No.
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Old 06-24-2012, 11:21 PM   #24
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Re: KJ in BB: Bass Ackwards

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Originally Posted by AlanBostick View Post
And that feeds into my decision to take this line. They know that when defending my blind I will often peel and fold to a second barrel on the turn.



A self-taught TAG might not recognize "balance" but still know that I k/r the flop with my strong hands and k/c my mediocre ones, and make correctly exploitative turn bets when k/c on the flop.
he can't be doing both. is his turn bet range too weak or too strong?
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Old 06-25-2012, 02:45 PM   #25
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Re: KJ in BB: Bass Ackwards

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Originally Posted by private joker View Post
The problem with waiting for the turn to raise OOP is that turns check through a lot
agreed, but this then leads to the discussion of a topic I've been thinking about for a while which is the check call flop check raise turn line when heads up. Personally I think my range when i take this line is terribly polarized. I either have a turned top pair top kicker plus or I am semi bluffing a draw. By doing this I feel like my range is too heavily weighted toward draws when draws are present on the turn (and more likely to garner a thin call) and too heavily weighted toward big hands when they are not present.

If I widen this range by slow playing the flop I feel like I'm giving up too much value on the flop. Basically, I'd like to know from as many people as possible, "what is your range when you check call flop, check raise turn heads up?" Is it balanced? Don't you think you are giving up too much value on the flop by trying to balance your turn checkraises?

I would like to be able to widen my range when check raising the turn after check calling the flop but I can't bear to not checkraise the flop with my bigger hands OOP. This hand is a good hand to start that discussion because taking Alan's line would take me closer to my goal. I just would not be able to pass up a checkraise on this flop. By the way, this flop doesn't strike me as being as dry as you think it to be alan. Maybe that's because I checkraise all my gutshots on this flop too. Do you? Do others see this as a dry flop?
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