July Low-Content Thread

[that_pope]

Had a dealer in our game do something that was obviously an angle, but one that any good player would never be in a position to take advantage of.

Game is 20/40 with $10 and $20 blinds. The dealer was short and lost all but one chip on a previous hand and posted the BB with the $5 and lost the hand. The dealer then did a short rebuy for $5 and took the SB and again lost. Then the dealer rebought for $2k. lol

The only time I am short is when I am tapped out for what I have brought with and obviously on tilt. If I have funds on me, I never allow myself to get short, so I would be able to pull the $5 rebuy, but not the $1k+ rebuy after it.

[kirbymontor]

In AC, the re-buy bull**** slows the game in two ways: 1. The player continuously re-buys from the dealer, slowing the game down. 2. The game rack gets depleted and a a fill comes in.

Once, a perverted gynecologist had 1k in red in front of him and 1k in cash. Instead of using his chips to play, he continuously used cash. Not to mention made every woman player or dealer cringe with his comments about his former profession.

I've only seen this LHE short-stacking done in the 20 game, never higher. It's even a chore at times to get some players just to semi-follow the action so the game speed stays relative to a good rate of hands per hour.

[Resultsoriented]

Short buying the sb is +EV, or rather less -EV than playing hands normally from the sb. This would of course require being all in at some point, which is overall -EV.

But it's silly to make fun of someone for being all in when you yourself admit that you allow yourself to be all in by bringing limited funds. A game either has value or it doesn't. You being down $x has no bearing on that.

[private joker]

Originally Posted by OaklandExCourier

36 hours, almost done with the 3rd season of Breaking Bad.

So. Damn. Good.

Awesome, .

The best thing about this post is that you haven't seen when Breaking Bad kicked it up to the next level, which was the last two eps of s3, and all of s4.

When I was about halfway through s3, or around where you are, I decided it was the greatest show of all time. But then I saw the end of s3 and s4 and now it's all I can talk about.

[9% of all my posts on 2+2 are now about BB]

[gaming_mouse]

Originally Posted by kirbymontor

It's not a kill game. Could you briefly explain how it would be +EV?

think about the extreme case. you are at a full ring table where everyone is fullstacked and playing normally. you are allowed to rathole and buy in for 1BB at the beginning of each hand. you get to realize the full equity of every hand you're dealt, while everyone else is forced to fold because of postflop disadvantages.

EDIT: not saying correct strategy is to play every hand, but your VPIP will much higher than it normally would

[Brad Childress]

Yeah, shortstacking limit is +EV for the same reason shortstacking no limit is. In live limit games you can gain pretty significant advantages by getting things like 1.5bb in preflop or on the flop in multiway situations where guys with equity will fold to a bet later in the hand, bets that don't have to call. Sometimes them dropping out will save you a huge amount, and many other times you will pick up small percentage nibbles here and there (somebody folds AT unimproved giving your A8 two outs going into the river that you wouldn't have had, for example).

It's not +EV for a very good limit player to do this, although in extreme situations it could be. I've discussed the particularly strange situation of this game I play in with a well respected expert on this forum and he said it was probably correct to shortstack even if you were better than all of the other players, the advantage of having so much dead money in on kill pots when you are shortstacked is huge.

Even for a very good player who would not want to give up the edge of picking up bets on later streets or running bluffs in good spots, think about the number of times you wish you could call a flop bet, or a half of a flop bet, and see out the rest of the hand. Or the number of times you wish you were all-in preflop. Or how awesome it is when you raise preflop and get threebet and you only have one or two small bets left.

All that being said, I highly doubt the guys doing this are shortstacking well. But if they are they have some advantages over you and there's nothing you can do about it. Again, the situation is not as pronounced as in no limit, where if players are allowed to buy in small enough shortstacking can be the dominant strategy, but there are definitely mathematical advantages to be had by playing short in limit.

[Joe Tall]

Originally Posted by gaming_mouse

That is pretty hard to justify by any means

I fairly sure the computers have a pure-random fold programed in, every x-moves or some other non-sensical programming and that's what we often see screen shots when we do.

[OaklandExCourier]

Originally Posted by private joker

Awesome, .

The best thing about this post is that you haven't seen when Breaking Bad kicked it up to the next level, which was the last two eps of s3, and all of s4.

When I was about halfway through s3, or around where you are, I decided it was the greatest show of all time. But then I saw the end of s3 and s4 and now it's all I can talk about.

[9% of all my posts on 2+2 are now about BB]

Oh yeah, Half Measure and Full Measure were epic. Consider me converted.

[3fiveofdiamonds]

Originally Posted by that_pope

Had a dealer in our game do something that was obviously an angle, but one that any good player would never be in a position to take advantage of.

Game is 20/40 with $10 and $20 blinds. The dealer was short and lost all but one chip on a previous hand and posted the BB with the $5 and lost the hand. The dealer then did a short rebuy for $5 and took the SB and again lost. Then the dealer rebought for $2k. lol

The only time I am short is when I am tapped out for what I have brought with and obviously on tilt. If I have funds on me, I never allow myself to get short, so I would be able to pull the $5 rebuy, but not the $1k+ rebuy after it.

Posting the blind for less than the amount of the blind is not allowed, or at least shouldn't be by a properly run card room. You should check with your room, and if the first person says its allowed, you should have him check with higher ups or try to get the rule changed. Its not a common enough occurrence that you will get a correct ruling by asking the dealer as it is happening necessarily.

This happened to me at the Bellagio many years ago. The BB had 1/3 of the blind left and posted. I asked the dealer if that was allowed, she said it was. I didn't know it wasn't and made a comment about it not seeming right but whateva. Anyways i win the side pot and the BB wins the minuscule main pot. After her down, she walks into the back and asks the main supervisor unprovoked whether it was allowed or not and came back to me and told me I was right and handed me two chips out of her pocket that "I would have won" (mine and the third player, ignoring the fact that all the cards would have been different).

I tried to give them back and she wouldn't take them and she apologized about the mistake again. Don't worry, Rhonda made those chips back in an extra buck here and there over the years for actually admitting a mistake and taking the initiative to recheck her knowledge of the rules without me asking her to.

I'm not even going to comment on the wtf $5 rebuy and how that was allowed.

[3fiveofdiamonds]

Originally Posted by gameoverjc

Clayton's post... lol.



deal.

Anyone's thoughts on the HU machines? I been playing them on and off since I landed yesterday (I'm aware of the personality shift) - I actually enjoy them. Don't think they are beatable for much, but ofc when I say that xerok sits down next to me and wins 800 in 15 mins.

That being said I think they are beatable but not by what others claim who are walking on water vs it. Some of the personalities seem very tough and from talks with some other hu pros who been grinding it they seem to say all of them are close to GTO, so when it c/r gutty and bets to river or calls down j hi it's pretty much close to being right long term.

"It never gets tired and it never tilts."

:/

I played it quite a bit when it first came out. I don't want to rehash the old debate on whether its beatable or not but there is something I have seen time and time again from friends that come into town and give it a go.

Keep in mind these are all good poker players Im talking about. They come in town, play the machine, do well and go on and on about how its beatable it is and whatnot. Its like they all lose their objective reasoning after a hot session.

One of my friends posted in the main bot thread that he has been beating it for months when he had played it a couple of times spanning a few month period. Another, just a couple of weeks ago said he was thinking about moving out here and playing it full time after playing it during the break of the Venetian $600 Horse tournament.

I always ask them, where exactly do you think your advantage comes from? The last guy was three betting gutterballs on the flop and binking them at like a 75% success rate. How often is it folding the best hand? What exactly do you think you are doing better than it is?

I think if you honestly ask yourself this question, you start to see how tough it is. It almost never folds the best hand. Most of the time you think you are bluffing and get a fold and peek at their cards, you have the best hand. Your only defense is to try to play hands in a manner that you rarely put yourself in a spot to fold the best hand and make damn sure you get max value on your winners.

If there are actually people grinding this machine for substantial profit on a daily basis, I would be surprised.

edit: The Venetian guy quit it the next day after putting in a proper session. But its funny how none will admit (maybe myself included) that they can't beat it. They all say, "I think I can beat it but not for much", when they finally get taken for a whirl and look at it a little more objectively. For the record, I actually came close to break even versus it BB wise (lost money overall after going on tilt one day).

[gameoverjc]

Finally won a big session against the bot and snap quit. It's pretty tough. Too tired to get into it, but it's funny seeing someone run real hot against it. I sweated a very nice lhe bracelet holder and he tore it up for 200bbs in < 3 hours. Sick viewing.

On a side note, Vegas is really depressing. I originally wrote a whole page about how sick this day has been (sans hanging with leodoc, captain r, hank, jesse, doug l) and obv when I hit submit the internet hotel log screen appears and poof my post vanished.

I haven't slept in 42 hours so that may be playing a factor, but honestly if I started to enumerate all the things that went down I think that'd make anyone feel less great about their day.

[gameoverjc]

basically my day playing the bot:

morning:

Spoiler:

afternoon:

Spoiler:

night:

Spoiler:

somewhere along there I was fortunate to beat it.

[gaming_mouse]

that last one is amazing

[pig4bill]

Originally Posted by gameoverjc

On a side note, Vegas is really depressing. I originally wrote a whole page about how sick this day has been (sans hanging with leodoc, captain r, hank, jesse, doug l) and obv when I hit submit the internet hotel log screen appears and poof my post vanished.

I haven't slept in 42 hours so that may be playing a factor, but honestly if I started to enumerate all the things that went down I think that'd make anyone feel less great about their day.

It's gotten to where I hate being on the Strip. I always stay at a place like the Orleans that has movie theaters and a Subway and a Fuddruckers. That allows me to stay away frm the Strip except for the few hours at a time when I might want to play. But honestly, since the near demise of TI, there's nowhere on the Strip I like playing anymore. Venetian has always been bad to me and I run like crap there. The uncapped 1/3 is gone from the Wynn. Can't stand the Bellagio. Bally's is smoky as hell and rake too high. Bah, the hell with Vegas...

[Verno]

Originally Posted by gaming_mouse

that last one is amazing

+1 million. Thanks for posting that JC!!! I love it.