Playing 9 handed 50/100 with half kill and full kill. Hero is posting $100 full Kill OTB.

Player A in early to mid position opens action for $200. Folded around to Hero OTB.

Read: Player A rarely open limps in this position, open raises with wide range, will call raises with fairly wide range. Hero 'feels' (might not, lol) it can be beneficial to play pots against player A.

Hero decides to defend his FK post with 9 7o OTB for another $100.

*It is very common in this game to defend your HK or FK light as the game can play wide open with the higher limits and the ability to keep the FK going if we win the hand. Still a light call, I know, not the point of the post though

Player B in BB 3! to $300.

Read: Player B is super LAG. He will most certainly 3! with A9o+, QJs+, 55+.

Player A just calls narrowing his range some. He would usually 4! with JJ+, AK, AKs/AQs.

Hero calls another $100.

Flop - 10c 7x 6c

Player B in BB leads out for $100.

read: Player will lead out in this situation 100% of the time obviously.

Player A raises to $200.

read: Player A would have 4! preflop with JJ+ against Player B, so we don't think he has that. Could be protecting set, but would probably keep me in and let Player B lead out turn before raising. Could be 99 or 88. Could also be a lower pair and trying to drive me out and see if Player B has AK/AQ. He would float with non flush over cards to see the turn. Also looks like possible flush draw with over cards like AJc, KQc, etc.

Hero? (fold, call, 3!) thoughts on each?

If player b has a wide range you have to three bet here to charge him to draw your hand is strong but very vulnerable otf.

Hi Ace,
Interesting spot. Ran some numbers, here's the equity after the flop:

Player B Range (Super Lag in BB): 32.7% Equity
{55+, A5+, KT+, QJ+, JT+, T9+, A9o+, KTo+}

Player A Range (Early-Mid Position, no 4!): 28.8% Equity
{TT-66, AJs-A7s, AQo-A8o, KQs-K9s, KQo-KTo, QJs-QTs, QJo, JTs, T9s}

Hero (I smoothie that too...) 97o: 38.4% Equity

Player B's flop bet tells us nothing, and Player A's raise tells us little. Player A could be raising the super LAG's flop bet with most of his range in order to isolate him and eliminate hero. Therefore, we should give this raise less credit. Our equity is good even after we eliminate a few of player A's range hands due to his raise. It also seems unlikely that A has a flush draw as he'd not want to lose hero's action, meaning we have a greater chance of our outs being good.

Let's 3! here in position and try to push B off hands like over cards which could beat us on the turn if we do have the best hand here. We take control of the pot, better define A & B's hands, charge draws and also set up for a free card option on the turn. If we get 4! we'll take a card off and decide on the turn (probably call due to odds). If not, we can bet/call/raise good turn cards and consider checking behind for a free card or folding the really bad ones.

J Lot

Call again nh so far

i got confused when you described calling pf as "defending light"

Do we have a club?

With a club I kind of like raising. Without a club I like calling.

No clubs, no back doors other than the obvious inside straight draw, trips, and two pair draws.

Defending light - Sorry, I will almost always call the raise preflop OTB for another $100, when I have already posted $100 for the full kill, with a hand like 97o. However, some would fold that hand considering no one else was in the hand and it was most likely going to be 3 handed at most and possibly heads up. Hence some would consider the call as fairly light (maybe not the right word - weak/fishy maybe?). Again, I am going to call this most of the time and lean on my post flop play.

I explained what I meant by the 'defending light' wording in my previous post.

Regardless, I would like your input on the hand if possible. Much appreciated.

+1

I think what he's saying and I'm thinking is "you just posted a BB on the BTN, this isn't the worst hand I'd show up with in my range." Position is worth a lot. You've got a discount to play it. It seems like you kind of wanted to fold here, and that seems like it would be a big-ish mistake to push the fold button.

No one who has any business playing 50 with a kill would

Why would you care if ended up being heads up? Getting 3.75:1 in position doesn't sound good to you?

This is backwards thinking. Having the kill is -EV. You don't want to have to post money when you don't have to. Just because other people have this stupid idea doesn't mean you should.

Cbet is not obviously automatic 3way OOP on a middling 2tone board.

A guy who 'calls a lot of raises with a wide range' sounds like a passive player. I put him on a pretty strong range, and don't like 3b'ing. CALL.

First time hearing of a 50-100 game with a full kill. Where do you play OP?

Again guys, I would almost never fold a hand like this in this position. My range for calling would be quite large here. I 100% certainly did not want to fold here as well. I was trying to deter anyone that may have questioned the pre-flop call or dwell on that part of it. And YES, believe it or not, there are a few players that would have considered folding there, although I absolutely do not agree with that. Forget I even mentioned that part, lol, as it seems to have derailed the point of the post.

After the hand was over, I even got flamed by one person in particular and a few others in agreement for the way I played the hand, which I thought was played correctly given the situation and reads. That is why I posted, to make sure I was not missing something in the way I played the hand and to get other peoples thoughts and input of course. There are a few really good posters here with great input.

ZOMG - Thoughts please, forgetting about the 'defend light' comment that derailed the post!

Considering you have to pay a $100 penalty for winning the pot is 97o really an auto call?

I

That may be an interesting discussion but to be fair it's less than a $100 penalty.

But yes, it's still an auto call

I understand and agree with you about the thought process. I try not to get sucked into it. For some reason, people seem to go crazy bat **** when the stakes gets raised though. Some play tighter of course, but some actually play looser with the larger stakes, I guess thinking the big money jump could affect others decisions.

Also, keep in mind that Player A started the action by raising, so the 'calls a lot of raises with a wide range' does not apply as much here, since it was a three bet he just called. I disagree with putting him on a strong range as he is the type of player that would have 4! a tight range peflop, not just call it, which is did mention as part of the reads as well.

Hindsight is always easy to say, but I did not put him on a strong hand even though he raised the flop. I thought he was taking advantage of knowing Player B LAG and 100% leads flop action. I pretty much eliminated JJ+ and sets. I put him on a range of 99, 88, 55-, or overcards+FD. The only thing I forgot to mention was the possibility of 98s.

Does this change your opinion of Hero's flop action?

BTW - Yes, Player B cbets the flop very very close to 100% of the time here, regardless of 3way OOP on a middling 2tone board. He just does, there is nothing else I can say about it, lol.

I think it's an easy cold call. You don't need to "defend a vulnerable hand." We're already probably losing so we don't have much to defend. Just keep calling however many bets it is on the flop and hope to get lucky and re-eval on the turn

What else is there to do?

It is $50/$100 with a half kill ($75/$150) for winning 2 hands in a row that see a flop or ANY time one pot is over $1500. Then it goes to a full kill ($100/$200) if you win the hand (when seeing a flop) when you posted the half kill. I am sure a lot people on here know the game, but it is not in your area unfortunately, it is in MD.

Goes every single Friday starting around noon, fills up by 1 or 2, sometimes gets a feeder table going later at night, and usually runs until 4 or 5 am. It has been know to run through the weekend before though. Good mix of some solid players, some OK players, and a few not so good players. Get a few players bored with PLO action and NL players when the 10/25 table is not so good. The PLO guys can spicy it up some as they are looking for action of course. It has been getting known lately, so we have been getting some out of towners coming in to play some lately as well. Still a very loose aggressive game for the stakes played.

PM me if you are ever in the area for details or to get added to the list.

Cool, thanks for the info.

I did not put Player A on a hand even though he raised the flop because of the range of hands I knew he would have 4! preflop against Player A and if he did have something like 99, 88, or 55-, I would be ahead of him a descent amount of times. Player B has AJ+ a lot of time here, with AK being very likely, along with other hands that could have missed the flop (KQs) because that is the way he plays.

Given this, I decided to three bet my hand to show strength and to see where I was at in comparison to Player B. Some people here agree with that and some think it was a cold call. However, just cold calling narrows my range some and calling could put me in even worse future decision spots if I don't improve and the turn brings an A or K, a club, an over card club, a 10 to counterfeit my two pair draw, etc. Or, I don't improve but the turn and river are just random low XX cards.

Is this not the right thinking here? I know hands can be played different ways and neither way be wrong or incorrect, so I guess my question is if this is perceived as a 'bad' play or just possibly not the better play between this and just cold calling two bets? Also interested in if my line of thinking is off even if the 3! was fine.

I greatly appreciate the input

Hello J Lot,

Thanks so much for the input!

Ace

I don't get this. Virtually always there is a corrext way to play a hand and an incorrect way, sometimes two lines will be so close that it doesn't matter but usually a decision is right or wrong. For example, if you pick any thread on here where people disagree, one side is always wrong.

Also why are you worried about narrowing your range when you call 2 cold here? It's certainly wider than when you 3 bet the flop?

Seems like a pretty easy flop call.

You realize in one post you say you include 88-99 in his flop raise raise and then in a later post say you rule them out?

My guess at what happened. You 3 bet the flop and cracked a hand you shouldn't have and got berated by the other players for the flop 3 bet. You posted here hoping everyone would agree with you and when you found they weren't you changed your read in the post you deleted to rule out hands like 88-99 and changed your read to include more hands that were air over cards.

Player A had 88?

1) I wouldn't fold my button kill post. Especially to player as described.
2) As played, ZOMG_RIGGED nails it. We likely don't have the best hand, a lot of our +EV is tied up in BB calling in rough shape (naked overs, 88). Folding would be the worst option by a landslide.