20/40

I think we are 8 handed at the moment. The two loosest players in the game limp in MP. Each probably playing ~70% of their hands preflop and do have raising ranges.

I raise in CO w/ Q9o. Button who is a good and aggressive player who very rarely misses value and bluffs a lot closer to correct then the other players in the game calls, BB calls, and limpers call.

Flop is T96. Checked to me, I bet, button raises, and everyone?!?! calls.

Turn is A and it checks through. River is A. Three checks to me so I bet, and the button raises. Folded to me fairly quickly....


Note: For anyone who was there, I wasn't paying attention to the suits, so I made them up.

Not sure what the question is. Should you 3bet?

I don't get it.. Seems like very easy call

I would fold pre-flop and think over-limping is slightly better than raising.

It's a pretty odd turn check by button and even stranger when he raises river. When people do something weird and I am closing the action heads up with some showdown value, I usually call. Whatever he has doesn't make much sense. It's probably KT but you're getting a good price and it could be something else.

Q9o isn't a horrible raise here at all. Against two hands from the 11th-70th percentile, Q9o has approx 35% equity. Plus he's likely to have position throughout the hand, plus raising stuff like this and winning can often tilt fish and make them play worse. I'm okay with this raise if these two guys are really that loose.

I'd call River pretty easily. Especially since given your likely image, BTN could just be spaz raising QJ or something.

I'm with Lond PF:

Fold > Overlimp > Raise

As played, I don't think we lose much value by checking back flop, but will depend on suits.

i think fold is def worst option pre

really??

I did specifically comment that would be one way to play KT while I was in the tank for the longest in well over a month (probably less than 30-45 seconds).

After the hand he said he wasn't worried about me having an ace, as he perceived I would donk the turn with an ace fearful of it checking through. But there are 3 others in the hand who could have an ace...

Raise is clearly superior to limp preflop. His range doesn't have a lot of aces in it after he calls pre

i dont think any of the other players with ax are checking turn and river.

I'd check the river and expect to win somewhat often both when I check call and when it checks through.

As played I'd call.

If he very rarely misses value doesn't he almost always have a ten here? Why are people talking about an ace?

I probably call at game speed because his story "doesn't add up" even though it actually does. If he bluffs often enough it can't really be a bad call.

He's not folding better so 3betting here would suck.

Maybe 9h8h/9h7h/Jh9h plays this way some of the time.

I'd call river as well.

Agree with stinkypete on river, and agree with the fold > call > raise pre, though preflop is worthy of some discussion here.

The only real value hand he could have here is a ten he decided to not bet the turn but raise the river with ? I snap call

I'd guess that BTN is not expecting you to fold a better hand or raising for value, but is just trying to get one or more of the other guys to fold a better hand like 9x or Tx. Obviously it is not likely that either you or BTN have an A, but I think weaker players will often just think "there is a bet and a raise so I must be beat." So even though BTN isn't necessarily telling a convincing story, I think he can legitimately expect to get a lot of folds.

I think the most likely hands for BTN include 77 (if he doesn't 3bet that pre), J9s, T8s, T7s, 98s, 97s, 76s, 65s, K9s, Q9s, K6s, and KhQx. He could also have stuff that is a bit stronger like JTs, QTs, or KTs, though I would expect an aggressive player to bet those on the turn. I also don't really see a good player raising for value with QTs/KTs on the river. I think they are waaaay more likely to go for overcalls by worse hands.

If I was confident in my read here, I would take the max time (if this is online) and 3bet. If BTN is a good thinking player who would likely bet the turn with Tx+, I think there is a very good chance you have the best hand. He can't really have a hand here that can cap, so you just need to have the best hand 50% of the time he doesn't fold. If he has showdown value, I don't expect him to fold to the 3bet if you take the maximum time. Again, this really depends on your reads about his pre flop range (would he even play 97s?) and his turn and river play. It only takes a small alteration in your read to make 3betting horrible. I would never fold in a million years though.

It sounds like you did not include any range for the big blind but he will clearly be entering the pot a fairly large percentage of the time so I think we need to consider him.

I gave player 1 Q9o
Players 2 and 3 got (77-22,A9s-A2s,KTs-K2s,Q3s+,J4s+,T4s+,94s+,84s+,73s+,62s+,52s+,42s+,3 2s,ATo-A2o,KJo-K5o,Q7o+,J7o+,T6o+,95o+,85o+,74o+,64o+,54o)
Player 4 (big blind) got random hand

Player 1 has 27.8% equity using my simulation. But he also has a toughish player acting after him and some other guys in the sb and bb who might wake up with a hand and make it 3 bets. And I don't think Q9o gains anything in implied odds, I would say it has a small net negative adjustment to equity based on them.

The reason I prefer calling to raising is if we call, we might get button to enter the pot with some hands we are dominating. But if we raise, he will probably only continue with a part of his range we are in trouble against. And, he will often make it 3 bets with that part.

Whatever the button had he played his hand close to perfect. As played, I call the river.

Fold pre because of the player on your left. Raising is signing up for a 5-6 way pot a decent chunk of the time. Why put money in at all, let alone double the bet.

I went through a phase raising these types of hands in these types of spots preflop and looking back I'm pretty sure it was my lowest point in full ring limit holdem in 12 years.

I mean FWIW if the two limpers are as loose and bad as pope says, then Q9o is probably fine, or at least not horrible.

I still think pope should call river for the same reason as why KT should raise it; pope's range looks like ****box.

So it seems like the consensus is call.

I also posted this hand expecting some preflop discussion. As I was raising I was questioning if I should be raising this light. Obviously being stuck made it easier!

Results:

His flop raise with 55 is very bad. Easy fold for him.

I dislike his flop raise.

I disagree that you should have bluffs on the river. It's a five way pot.