Interesting hand. Borgata 40:

I open JT in HJ. CO, BTN, SB, BB all call.

Flop (10 SBs): 79K
Checks to me and I check, intending to x/r if either villain bets. It checks through.

Turn (5SBs): 3
Check, check, I bet, CO Raises, BTN calls, SB folds, BB 3bets. ?

General thoughts and considerations here? Pros and cons to 4betting?

CO is wild Indian guy who plays pretty randomly but often bets when checked to without reason. He's the main reason I checked flop.

BTN is solid reg but a little on the Loose side.

BB is a nittier reg, but he's pretty fired up today and has been doing some out of line stuff.

I don't feel in great shape against BB, even though he's steamed up. He definitely has a monster and usually I would put him square on a big flush, but none of us are checking back the flop with diamonds so it'd be easy for him to overvalue alot of hands here.

I'd bet the flop without really considering any other option. As played I'd call down or raise the rivered straight flush.

4b or 5b cap? Makes a difference here. I'd lean towards raising if 4b cap

bad flop check.
BB turn play makes no sense but maybe just calling here is fine, going for the overcall value.

I cap turn. I would also be a little afraid of BB here, but this is east coast limit, where people will 3 bet bottom 2 pair against the field, let alone any set, and you're only jamming in 1 extra bet (borgata is 4b cap). the flop (non)action complicates reads, but if he's good he's also 3bing any crappy flush.

Depending on how many call the turn and what the river brings, either b/c or c/c the river.

I would also bet the flop, though I understand why you might prefer to c/r against a known donker behind you.

Borgata sure. Capping here at Foxwoods is suicide.

Agree, though a 4b/f might be ok if nit isn't raising without the nut flush

Bet the flop

I think this hand is a perfect candidate for your bet/3bet range so I'd bet the flop. If you're looking for semibluffs to populate your flop c/r range, I think hands like Ad8d or JsTs would be better candidates.

Agree flop is an easy b/3b.

I like calling turn and raising a lot of safe rivers if you want to get more value. Can just call on board pairs and diamonds. I think the hand has proceeded in such a way that opponent should have any flush and a lot of sets/two pairs so we should probably be doing very well still.

Cap for "free" sd? Esp. if BB will c/r nuts on the end.. CO just has cheese or a big sooo often.
Lol @ all the flop nits. It's not uncommon for checking to induce this exact sort of spazz on the big streets with not great hands.

worst use of the word nit ever. You know what also makes a lot money? Getting to b/3b when you're drawing to half the deck

As stated previously, A8 makes a far better check-raising hand, IMO, because JT has gobs of equity no matter if HU or MW. If we bet and get raised (and the field clears out), we can 3 bet with our mega draw and potentially get him to fold a hand. If we bet and it goes 5 ways, yummy.

Shrug I think flop is fine as a change of pace. It's not a situation you are going to have anywhere close to a 100% c betting range. Worst thing that happens is you bet flop and next guy raises and everyone folds. Not sure how likely that is but it checking around seems a far better result and you had a fine plan. Turn is a weird spot though. Calling down seems ok

Yeah but sometimes youre also going to get to shovel in a lot of money. Some or a lot is better than some or none

It'd be different if there was even one more player behind

Yea. Important thing to keep in mind is the possibility of the b/3b. I wonder if OP had considered that possibility as a way to shovel in lots more moneys.

Regarding turn, I'm surprised no one has asked about potential timing tells. Like if he had non-nut value hands like Qd4d, 6d5d, sets, etc, I'd figure he'd at least consider his options before cold 3 betting this turn card.

From BB POV, obviously nobody has a flush on the turn (least of all OP), because nobody bet the turn. The more troubling aspect is that BB is not concerned about turn getting checked through on a seeming blank turn card where it's not clear anyone will actually bet it.

If that fear didn't stop us from checking I don't see why it should stop him

I think nitreg types more freq play a set this way than they miss this opportunity to b3b a flush. And then I think we can put the bare Ad in CO or buttons hand at decent freq. Whether that tips a CD to a raise is beyond me.

Yes, in hindsight I agree nut diamond draws will benefit more from x/r/possible 4b, and this hand is prob a better b/3b. In the moment it was purely exploitative. I felt it very likely that the crazy guy behind me was betting, and I'd be able to get everyone to shovel a bunch of money in. I was surprised when he checked behind me, and still not so surprised that he raised the turn, lol.

The check through on the flop is what makes this hand so interesting though, because BTN, CO, and myself are all betting diamonds on the flop virtually all of the time. Idk, again in hindsight, the turn seems like a pretty clear cap. Considering both the flop checks and the fact that the 2bet came from the wild player who can have literally anything, I should be in fine shape against the 3bet. Or maybe I just think that now after seeing he had K9. But idk, there is still some value in keeping the players behind me in, possibly drawing dead. But there's also value in them calling 2 more bets, possibly drawing dead. I could also always raise safe rivers, which may be a better plan. It sounds sick but I feel like I could safely raise/fold the river v this opponent.

Most players in that game really suck at reading hands and mostly just play their hand's absolute strength rather than its relative strength. So I think given that A. Your equity on the flop should be massive most of the time
B. There isn't much to be gained by going for deception against guys who either can't read hands or can kinda read hands but wont really do anything about it and
C. Your overall loose aggressive image

The flop is a bet

Given that you checked I think that you should just call down for the reasons I stated above

I think there is no other way but to cbet. There's too much equity left to be gained from a cbet. If the next player up does k/r and thin out the field, we'll still gain value since they'll probably still barrel the turn on a diamond, 8 or Q.

This hand is obviously fake. You haven't checked back since 2011.

Fwiw. It's almost impossible to give you diamonds, so I'd be shoveling money in if I felt I had live one beat.

I like it as a once in blue moon sort of line. Maybe not specifically with j10 vs ace piece given you have so much equity. But these sorts of screwball plays will stick in a lot of folks minds. Especially when a war breaks out on turn.


Did "we" win?

BB had K9 and rivered a King.