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02-07-2017 , 10:58 AM

asmitty

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 4,444

Mid-limit game in LA. Villain is unknown, but he is wearing a suit and a diamond-encrusted watch.

I open A8s in the HJ and villain calls the SB next in. BB folds.

Flop Q86r. Villain check/calls.

Turn 4. Villain check/calls.

River 8. Villain donks, I raise, villain 3bets. Do we 4bet?

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02-07-2017 , 11:10 AM

pgcounty

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 3,183

No. A bit too ambitious vs. an unknown.

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02-07-2017 , 11:17 AM

jdr0317

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 8,231

I'd just call, too much stuff is beating us.

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02-07-2017 , 09:47 PM

bipolarbearclaw

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 340

It's impossible that you're beat unless he's playing weird. He kinda has an easy 3 bet on the river with 8x or AA so I don't hate a 4 bet.

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02-07-2017 , 09:50 PM

trickytricky

newbie

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 24

I don't mind 4 betting here. We would have heard from 2 pair before the river. If he played it goofy then oh well, note it and move on.

I expect to see 87, 85 here.

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02-08-2017 , 04:08 AM

ninefingershuffle

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 3,543

Easy call. He always has something utterly random that beats you.

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02-08-2017 , 06:05 AM

phunkphish

veteran

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 2,902

For hands like this its important to explain the betting caps. Whether 4b, 5b, infinite HU is pertinent.

Comes down to what reads you have for this randomly well dressed villain. I'd 4bet but not that interesting.

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02-08-2017 , 09:14 AM

leavesofliberty

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 6,296

Quote:

Originally Posted by bipolarbearclaw

It's impossible that you're beat unless he's playing weird. He kinda has an easy 3 bet on the river with 8x or AA so I don't hate a 4 bet.

I 4-bet, call 5. It looks so much like he has an 8 lower kicker that I'll pay 5.

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02-08-2017 , 09:54 AM

monikrazy

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 28,047

Call, 4! Vs unknown seems thin at best, plus seeing what he has is also helpful

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02-08-2017 , 10:14 AM

#10

steveistheman84

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 1,438

4bet/call. he most likely won't 5bet anyway unless he has qq

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02-08-2017 , 12:35 PM

#11

Frankie Fuzz

grinder

Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 534

If there is a 4 bet cap, it is an easy cap since you only need to be good 50%. If a 5bet cap, you probably don't need to be good too much more than that since he may have trouble 5betting without specifically QQ since QQ and 88 (if he doesn't have an 8) are in your range.

Sure he might have a VERY unusually played 44/66, 86s, QQ, Q8s but it seems much more likely that he has something like 98s, 87s, 85s, T8s, J8s. With those latter hands, his play doesn't seem that unusual.

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02-08-2017 , 01:21 PM

#12

chief

newbie

Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 40

In LA, there's usually no cap when it's heads up.

Would be on the fence on a 4 bet, but would hate getting 5 bet. So.. I'd call and be happy with my decision.

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02-08-2017 , 01:58 PM

#13

Frankie Fuzz

grinder

Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 534

Is the kind of player who slow plays a set both on the flop and turn the same kind who donks the river (instead of checkraising)? I'd be shocked if that were so

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02-08-2017 , 03:23 PM

#14

trickytricky

newbie

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frankie Fuzz

Is the kind of player who slow plays a set both on the flop and turn the same kind who donks the river (instead of checkraising)? I'd be shocked if that were so

Even if someone slow plays a set or 2 pair, the turn is a potential scary of a board for 4 card straight and we would have heard from the villain.

There is a chance he didn't c/r with turned straight and now, is donking out.

Still like the 4bet if you could fold to a 5bet.

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02-08-2017 , 08:32 PM

#15

Jules22

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 4,156

I think at game speed I would call but I like 4 betting more - smells like a chop but you don't want to let K8 off cheap

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02-09-2017 , 07:50 AM

#16

leavesofliberty

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 6,296

Quote:

Originally Posted by steveistheman84

4bet/call. he most likely won't 5bet anyway unless he has qq

Or possibly also A8. There are situations to 4bet/fold, but this is not one of them in my book.

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02-10-2017 , 12:57 AM

#17

TEAMTYNEZ

enthusiast

Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 52

Although there's a good chance you're ahead, since you'll have much better hands in your range here on this river (QQ, Q8s, 66,44,88) that drops A8 imo into my calling range against an unknown.

Also, how did villain call "next in" as the sb if you were hj? Jw if you were actually the BU here bc then there's a chance 86s is in your range otr also

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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02-10-2017 , 07:06 PM

#18

DesertCat

I am a Regulator

Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 13,544

The EV difference of 4betting vs calling has to be too close to calculate, so i'd rely on psychological reasoning. IE it would tilt me to call 5 and lose, it would not tilt me to lose a bet by calling 3.

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02-10-2017 , 08:39 PM

#19

Jon_locke

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 4,180

I likely error on the side of caution to much (to much o8) and think it's a pretty easy 4 bet

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02-11-2017 , 07:52 AM

#20

leavesofliberty

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 6,296

Quote:

Originally Posted by DesertCat

Yeah, there's a trick where you can reach for another bet, and see if he does anything to stop you. If he doesn't, just call. $$$

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