Seriously it's a lhe tournament. 4 betting is not good.

Cutoff opens A5o, sb 3 bets 56s and BB called 3 with q8s or 4-6s. These are pretty accurate ranges.


It's pretty easy to use stove to ranch whatever conclusion you want by just making a bunch of absurd assumptions regarding starting hands:

Yea the sb has a lot f equity on J98 when he 3 bets, 10-8, J9, 89, 67 and 7-8

those guys are experts, they have balanced ranges. anyways, even if you make the ranges tighter, it wont change the fact that SB will have around 30ish EQ OTF, but sure, we can just all continue talking about spots without looking at EQs or just ignore those.

Come up with a range you think is realistic, and you will find that EQs dont change much on this board.

Balrog: enjoying your posts. Your ranges for each player look mostly fine. They could be adjusted around the edges, but agree that tinkering a bit won't change equities much, so don't know what JL's problem is.

OTR: You are completely cutting off one branch of your decision tree (4b'ing PRE) in a 3way pot and saying that it is obvious to do so. It is not. It's just simpler. In all likelihood, given that there are an infinite # of ways to do it, there's a superior strategy that involves 4b'ing PRE. I think you're being closed-minded if you never explore those other infinite options. Or maybe you have, in which case I don't think the answer would be as obvious as you're making it sound.

I disagree. I think everyone saying we need to 4b is being extremely closed minded and not considering a few key factors. Those ranges are just all way too wide.

My problem is that you would have to be Terrible to show up wkth some of those hands.

I was speaking to having a PF strategy that includes 4b'ing pre, not the specific hand.

Balrog gave CO a 33% range, SB a 23%, BB 25%. The hands in each range might be a bit off, but those numbers look very reasonable. How are you assigning ranges if you think they are *way* too wide? 25% CO, 12% SB?

somebody opens, somebody 3 bets and action is on us and we have a cap-fold strategy. you can argue

calling 3 bets in bb with 4-6s and Q8s is just indescribably terrible.

Cutoff probably opens 25% ish, sb probably 3 bets 13-15% and BB prob calls 8-10% tops. these ranges aren't close

Giving CO 25%, SB 14% is way too tight to me. BB playing 8-10% is lol, esp since OP says he is possibly calling his whole range.

I'm sure it's Lol to the majority of people playing limit holdem and limit holdem tournaments.

most people are also bad

If calling my whole range causes BB to defend 56s I think we've found another benefit to calling my whole range.

I was trying to construct somewhat conservative ranges , didnt expect to get flamed for it being way too loose or anything.

I will admit though that I am not familiar with limit tournament ranges, I was speaking from a CG player's perspective.

I think not 4betting vs 2 expert players is absolutely fine here. I could see myself in a different camp if it were BU vs SB vs BB and/or if the players involved were weakish regulars, but them being able to think out of the box and using all their options regardless of preflop action makes not 3betting so much better.

I also think there are so many interesting things going on in this hand postflop that I am sorry this thread is getting derailed by a preflop decision/discussion.

i think i figured out what 'expert' means in this forum. it means a regular poster here.

lol

he knows that i know that he knows that i know he's gay

Why is the BB calling 56s so good for you?

Because it's 6 high

Not sure if you are trolling, insanely cocky or just very close minded but my intuition is that in a poker tournament we would prefer that our opponent does not call with 56s here vs our range especially if we are never 4-betting. I could be wrong which is why I was hoping to discuss it, but your response isn't very productive.

I just think that if people are making calls wth hands they should fold that's good for us. So while knowin OTR doesn't 4 bet makes calling more attractive it certiaky doesn't make it profitable.

And if it's not profitable but your doing it becusse of his lack of 4 betting then that seems like a benefit to him

I'm sure the 56s has 25-27% equity here and getting Almost 4-1 on a call but a lot of hat equity is not realize able as well (like the TT4 flop where we cns have 15% equity and gold flop).

Jon I'm just impressed he correctly read you as insanely cocky without even knowing you!

Lol, he nailed insanely close minded as well (and constantly trolling as well, although not in that post)

This.