I can buy into the argument that raising 77 will buy us a great deal of equity. So let's talk about balance.

If we're raising 77, which pairs should we be flatting? AA+ must be fastplayed for value, and most combos of KK. So maybe we x/r 77-TT, and flat many Jacks and some QQ/KK. How does that sound?

I think as pots get bigger, giving ourselves the best chance to win the pot and extracting the most value when we are ahead become more important than disguising our range.

V2 already decided to go unbalanced by 4 betting preflop. I think he is correct to have done so.

So let's say I raise all pairs I have here, 77 being the lowest. I call or fold all nonpaired hands, AK being my best calling hand (assuming a 4 bet cap preflop). Even if my opponents can put me on these ranges, I don't think they are going to be able to make these super exploitative plays against me.

I probably show down AK unimproved if V1 folds along the way and fold my other unpaired hands on flop or turn. I don't think he can do much to exploit this. He doesn't have enough weaker holdings to make me fold a lot of better hands. I suppose he can bet 99 for value 3 times but I think he should do that even if we have weak pairs in our range.

When we raise, he knows we can have any pair but how can he really exploit this? He can call down lighter but now we get more value from our stronger hands. He can raise the turn lighter but I will just fold the times I have 77. He could try turning some hands into bluffs but I think this will cost him a lot when we have stronger hands.

I think if I raise 77, V1 folds, V2 calls and raises turn 8, I should consider 3 betting the turn. This would be a fun play.

I never cap three handed...unless the people in the hand aren't completely aware and are capable of spewing on every street.

I do, however, know about the light cappers and c/ring flop better against them.

I do not think this is advisable.

I used to just call my whole range in this spot. Then I discovered that hands like AQ, doing well against his 3 bet range, was facing gross spots against his wide range.

But I can't be capping AQ but calling AA. So now I just cap these hands. Maybe cap like 8's as well against someone who is particularly fond of 3 betting me.

i tend to not cap in 3way pots preflop also (unless a cbet isn't as likely or i'm up against spewy opponents). pretty much the same as flatting the bb.

If you could close the action with a cap then it's not the same at all, because you don't get to see if the other player in the hand wishes to cap (one benefit of not capping from the BB is seeing if the original raiser caps it, which is valuable information).

Further, if you have the option to cap and are not in the BB and have already raised at some point then someone cold called or open limped. If it's the BB, then maybe he didn't make a mistake, but if it's from somewhere else, then someone is playing a hand poorly, and capitalizing on that mistake is likely worth more than keeping a somewhat wider range against the other possibly competent opponent against whom this is worthwhile.

should have said, "for the same reasons as flatting or cc'ing the bb". i think that not capping is more for keeping a wider range than seeing if the original raiser caps. a lot of players, especially ip, will cap their whole range knowing that it can't get reraised while letting them show a lot of strength and have the ability to take free cards.

That was point of my post, and why I happily c/r flop here.

I recognize that choosing not to cap ever does keep your range wider. However, choosing never to cap from the BB (and forgoing the immediate value that capping a strong range would give you) is a choice we make because of the combined benefit of several effects: keeping a wider range; seeing if the original raiser chooses to cap; the relatively small edge we generally have over the other players' ranges (if they have reasonable raising and 3betting ranges); the ability to check-raise favorable flops, etc

Note that here, only the wider range is still working for us...

Firstly, one of the ranges is frequently weak and/or decapitated (again, unless one of the 2 villains cold-called from the BB) which means our preflop equity edge is substantially larger than if we are playing against reasonable raising and 3betting ranges, since now we are playing against a 3betting range and either a limping range or a cold-calling range. Against these weaker ranges we're giving away more immediate value for the sake of information hiding.

Secondly, we miss out on the information of whether or not the original raiser chooses to raise. Sure, maybe some players "always" cap it or whatever, but we still get to see it happen and get to see the 3rd player react to it on the flop. Now, we have no chance of any more information, because our call closes the action.

So, while we still are maintaining a wider range, I don't think that, in and of itself, is enough reason to not cap.

You made a long post about how one of big benefits of not capping is we get all the free info when player decides to cap. And it follows that the in position Player should now cap?

Bahahaha.... Gogogogo Jdr !!!!

I specifically note that if the BB is the player who "just called" preflop then things change a bit. Talking more about when we have a non-BB player who has limped or cold called.

If we are in the BB and elect to never cap then we get to see if the original raiser wishes to cap- useful information. If he caps 100% that's too much.

But if we are (say) in the CO and the action is UTG limp, we raise, SB 3! UTG calls and now we have the choice to CAP in a 3way pot, I think we should have a a capping range for sure. Similarly, if the action is: We raise the HJ, CO cold calls, SB 3bets, and the action is on us again we should have a capping range. Finally, if the action is we raise HJ, CO 3!, button cold calls, rest fold, again we can cap and we should have a capping range. By "just calling" in these latter situations we won't gain any information by seeing whether someone caps it, whereas when we just call from the BB we do gain more information.

You completely missed the point of my post. Your so focused on what info we gain by letting them cap but seem to completely ignore what info they gain when we cap.

To be honest I don't think
It matters much either way. I play a certain way Becusse it best fits in with my overall strategy: how that is and what it is I won't go into detail any more than I already have.

I did not.

My point is that when we're up against someone who is cold calling or open limping that the value we're passing up by not having a capping range preflop is too great to be concerned with information hiding.

I think 3 betting pre is fine actually...yeah it's towards the bottom of our range, but remember that OP said the limping range of V1 was 'craptastic' (great word choice btw), and if the V2 pro is as good as OP says he? will be aware of this and could be a little lite - hence the 3 bet. Obviously getting capped is not so good; however we still have a decent holding.

I also think raising flop is best - if we get 3bet/capped by the other two we can fold turn (or even fold immediately) ui without investing anymore money; and if we can get V1 out we can significantly improve our equity heads up. It also keeps our range wide as we've taken every aggressive action we can and might get us a few folds if V2 has AK/AQ type hands....