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Commerce 20-40 AA MW - Everyone likes the flop Commerce 20-40 AA MW - Everyone likes the flop

12-21-2014 , 07:40 PM
I'm usually the more aggressive player in most tables but somehow the flop action threw me off and I just call call call. Looking for help to improve my MW play.

Hero has many hours of history with V1,V2,V3, everyone is regular in the Commerce 20-40 game.

V1 UTG - Loose and somewhat aggressive older middle eastern man, plays 50% of his hand.

V2 UTG+1 - LAG, not very good middle age Asian man with shoulder length hair

V3 MP - textbook TAG Asian lady, the only non-standard thing that I've seen from her is she could cold call set mine with any pair and I've seen her cold call 3 bets set mining 88 in the past. Otherwise plays straightforward post flop and fast play made hands.

Hero CO - Usually a TAG player but have been playing LAG style in this game because the 4 players to his left are somewhat tight and predictable. Table has seen Hero opening late MP or LP with 57s,68s,AXo etc.

Pre-flop:
V1 Raise, V2 3!, V3 cold calls 3, Hero CAP with AcAd, the blinds fold everyone calls.

Flop (17sb):
Kd6h7s
V1 donk, V2 raise, V3 3!, Hero... Calls(??)...V1 folds (surprise), V2 calls.

Analysis - V1 donk range could be any pair "let's test the water" type of play or monsters like 66 and 77. 45 and 89 draw is not likely given his UTG open.
V2 and V3 could raise any K or set. V2 could have KK but V3 not likely to have KK since she did not cap pre. The reason I did not CAP is because I want to see if V1 or V2 will cap. (is this a good reason?)

Turn (13.5bb):
Kd6h7sTc
V2 check, V3 bets, Hero...Calls (???)

Analysis - The T changes nothing since I don't think V2 or V3 can have a straight draw (89).

River (16.5BB)
Kd6h7sTcTs
V2 check, V3 bets, Hero...Calls(????)

Are we ever happy calling along with our 1 GOOD pair given the flop action? I suspect many of you will play this differently. Any comments appreciated!
Commerce 20-40 AA MW - Everyone likes the flop Quote
12-21-2014 , 08:09 PM
Nice hand.

I think you are likely to get comments wanting you to be more aggressive, but I think it's fine on all streets.
Commerce 20-40 AA MW - Everyone likes the flop Quote
12-21-2014 , 08:17 PM
Close between a call and a raise on all three streets. Couple that with the fact that if you raise the turn or river, V2 is going to fold all of the hands you want him calling with and I think the way you played it is fine.
Commerce 20-40 AA MW - Everyone likes the flop Quote
12-21-2014 , 09:30 PM
Raise the flop so you can raise the turn.
Commerce 20-40 AA MW - Everyone likes the flop Quote
12-22-2014 , 01:05 AM
Thanks for the comments Lawdude and Mubsy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by callipygian
Raise the flop so you can raise the turn.
Calli do you mind to elaborate? Why would raising(capping) flop allow me to raise the turn? My hand would have screamed AA/KK and I doubt any hand that I beat on the flop, even the best (AK) would lead turn for me to raise. Or are you saying they'll CR me and allow me to 3! Turn? If so I think that line is ultra aggresive with just a pair, in fact I would be very worried if I get CR on the turn after capping flop.
Commerce 20-40 AA MW - Everyone likes the flop Quote
12-22-2014 , 02:11 AM
The donk and the raise are weak made hands from idiots. The 3-bet is srsbsnss but the TAG still has a bunch of crap like AK and KQs.

When you cap, I predict they donk the turn again because they think you're going to freecard the turn.
Commerce 20-40 AA MW - Everyone likes the flop Quote
12-22-2014 , 03:39 AM
That's quite a parlay of assumptions.
Commerce 20-40 AA MW - Everyone likes the flop Quote
12-22-2014 , 07:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by callipygian
When you cap, I predict they donk the turn again because they think you're going to freecard the turn.
I'm a bit biased since I was at the table for this hand, but with these players, if OP capped the flop they would have almost certainly checked to him on the turn. At the time the hand occurred I thought OP should have capped and then led the betting after that, but I think the way he played it actually seems fine.
Commerce 20-40 AA MW - Everyone likes the flop Quote
12-22-2014 , 12:59 PM
*shrug*
Commerce 20-40 AA MW - Everyone likes the flop Quote
12-22-2014 , 02:37 PM
Raw equity sims don't seem so great for you once 3 people show this much interest. The problem is you, V1 and V2 effectively block many combos of AK V3 could have. Calling down seems fine.
Commerce 20-40 AA MW - Everyone likes the flop Quote
12-22-2014 , 05:40 PM
NH. WP.
Commerce 20-40 AA MW - Everyone likes the flop Quote
12-22-2014 , 06:46 PM
Thanks Calli, I will consider that possibility (anti-free card play) next time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Six_of_One
I'm a bit biased since I was at the table for this hand, but with these players, if OP capped the flop they would have almost certainly checked to him on the turn. At the time the hand occurred I thought OP should have capped and then led the betting after that, but I think the way he played it actually seems fine.
Six_of_One, are you seat 4? or maybe 7
Commerce 20-40 AA MW - Everyone likes the flop Quote
12-22-2014 , 06:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LHELHELHE
Six_of_One, are you seat 4? or maybe 7
I was seat 4
Commerce 20-40 AA MW - Everyone likes the flop Quote
12-22-2014 , 07:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Six_of_One
I was seat 4
Nice hand with KJ flopping top 2. That was a hand that I regret playing and played very poorly too, you got pretty much max value from me. Look forward to seeing you at the table again.
Commerce 20-40 AA MW - Everyone likes the flop Quote
12-22-2014 , 07:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LHELHELHE
I will consider that possibility (anti-free card play) next time.
Jesse had a really funny post about it once, he wrote, "your opponents think, 'i put in as much action as humanly possible with nothing on the flop then take a free card on the turn ha ha im smarter than you.'"
Commerce 20-40 AA MW - Everyone likes the flop Quote
12-26-2014 , 07:47 PM
You need to at least raised the turn to get the rags out. (QJ, AK arent folding here)
Commerce 20-40 AA MW - Everyone likes the flop Quote
12-30-2014 , 02:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by callipygian
The donk and the raise are weak made hands from idiots. The 3-bet is srsbsnss but the TAG still has a bunch of crap like AK and KQs.

When you cap, I predict they donk the turn again because they think you're going to freecard the turn.
Aren't we assuming V3 thinks we're an idiot who will cold cap a hand purely to check turn? IMR what are we cold four betting twice with? Then to donk into that?
Commerce 20-40 AA MW - Everyone likes the flop Quote
12-31-2014 , 01:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spirit-of-Wisdom
You need to at least raised the turn to get the rags out. (QJ, AK arent folding here)
QJ isn't folding? really?
Commerce 20-40 AA MW - Everyone likes the flop Quote

      
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