CO is good post flop player who usually plays higher limits. Assume above average opening range from these positions.

CO opens, button folds, you're in SB, BB is stuck and trying to get even. If you call, he'll call a huge part of his range and play fit or fold. If you 3-bet, he'll cold call with blackjack hands and pocket pairs, possibly cap some hands.

What should our cold calling range be in this spot?

Could possibly shift CO to HJ or button, or change the BB to a different player type, to further discussion.

I don't have one

Hands that are too strong to fold but not strong enough to 3b. Then mix in some combos of stronger hands so the range isn't totally decapitated.

Occasionally walk the dog hu against over agro.

I don't ever really call in this spot. I learned to play pretty much always 3 betting or folding versus a single raiser from any position and haven't come across a compelling enough reason to change that general strategy.

Having said that, if you are going to employ this strategy, I think that certain conditions make it more favorable.

I think the tighter the opener's range, the better it is to have a cold calling range. And I think the worse each of our opponents plays post flop, the better it would be to have a cold calling range.

So given our scenario is we're up against a good player in late position, I really don't like it.

i definitely would not have a cold calling range in the situation you've described.

Completely ok to flat. Being OOP and having dead money makes this spot different from cold calling IP, and more like being in the BB.

I think we need to know the opener's range and flop cbet tendencies to cold call here.

Generally speaking, the tighter the big blind is, the more we can call. Imagine a tourney where the big blind is sitting out. Would be silly to play 3 bet or fold in that spot.

I experimented with coldcalling in the small blind vs button and cutoff openers with no apparent rhyme or reason. I was playing mostly 3-6 handed poker and won 0.8 big bets over 28k hands. Here's my report:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/35...47/?highlight=

If you stick to the rules I put down for coldcalling in the small blind, you will find yourself rarely calling here. Over the past few years I can only think of two occasions where I called preflop first in after a raise.

Also, I don't think you need to mix in strong hands with a coldcalling range anymore. It's all about profitability to me now. Either a hand earns more as a 3 bet or as a call. No need for mixed strategies here imo.

if SB=BB I think its clear SB should have a cc range. If SB = 0.9 BB, it's pretty close and SB should cc. now what about a 2-3 chip blind structure?

That's the process in which I think of it. To completely ignore the dead money is a bad process.

Wow, thanks for the link. Looks like you guys were dealing with online samples and concluded there's no way to compile enough relevant data to be sure. At this point I'm more interested in trying this in live games.

I call sometimes with AA, KK AK type hands if I'm stuck and opened isn't a wizard hat will immediately say wtf you must have AA

i think we shouldn't have a coldcalling range because whatever BB defense range is shouldn't be very different from a normal good player's defense range (we should be peeling fairly wide in the BB if CO opens and SB flats)

i like the concept of this argument more in NL when the opener is a pro, we have best position, and there are fish in the blinds. LHE i dont think you gain enough bets (from a reciprocality standpoint) by slowplaying certain value hands pre.

The biggest disadvantage to cold calling is that the big blind is getting a good price to see a flop. This is not a big deal if the big blind is a fish, and will play poorly on later streets. Conditions have to be very favorable to cold call. I'd much rather 3-bet/fold like 95% of the time.

Leaves, I think you overrate the value of letting a fish in the pot in limit poker. The mistakes they make later in the hand are not like big no limit mistakes.

Agreed, it's way more important to realize the equity of your hand and get fishes to call more bets when behind, versus maximizing the chance that they continue. Plus, a lot of fish are absurdly loose from the blinds.

Them being absurdly loose in the BB is actually a reason to cold call more. You would never slowplay a hand here PF with a loose fish in BB. There has to be a range of hands good enough to play but that don't want to play for 3 bets OOP against 1 or 2 players.

I actually find myself cold calling much more now. I have a hard time figuring this part out. I use to always 3 bet but am incorporting this in my game. As long as you mix up how you play the flop, you can balance.

There's always time where folding doesn't seem right, and raising doesn't seem right either. It's this mental friction that I use to resolve always by re-raising. Now I am thinking, you don't have position, perhaps being a little more passive is a better way to balance. Been a while from the tables.

You don't have position, so invite another player in the pot so you can make your hand even harder to play OOP three ways?

Example:

You have the QTs in the SB, BB is predictable/readable loose/passive. You go ahead and call, and see how things develop. The more observant you are, the less you have the play pre-flop in a rigid/dogmatic fashion. It's good to have pf hand charts, 3-bet ranges, etc. but it's also good to be flexible for the conditions.

Being "observant" is not enough. If you understand poker theory very well then you can probably go against the grain when people are making a clear theoretical error. Which happens a lot but is hard to prove. But until you stop thinking shorthanded wide range spots are "variance fests" you should stick to the chart

I definitely think there's more variance in short handed. But to clarify, I don't think it's a variance fest until you introduce the 3-handed straddle where everyone is already posting in a blind. I don't mind short-handed games, and think it takes more skill than full ring.

fwiw, the best 3h lhe AI's in the world have a ~9% flatting range in the sb. 3betting ~22% flatting ~9%. The range is unbalanced, weak, and suited heavy. Rarely flats premiums to balance. ^_^

#science. Spent most of my adult life obsessing over this stuff. Counterfactual Regret Minimization is an amazing thing. http://modelai.gettysburg.edu/2013/cfr/cfr.pdf

edit: That being said, it's very hard to balance + play correctly postflop unless you are a wizard. I tend to only do it when the BB is a fish + opener is pro. I generally just 3bet wider vs btn opens instead of having a flatting range too.... but bad BB's are juicy =D

This was my original thinking, but most seemed to disagree.