the hijack is hardly an ep raise

I'll admit to missing it was 5 handed. Was thinking FR UTG open.

Still think this is an easy fold from SB for somebody new to the game. Obv different story for other people.

I agree with foobar in this game getting 4.25 :1, assuming BB is decent and will fold junk hands. Most players play well enough postflop that our positional disadvantage makes this is a standard fold.

you can bet lot thinner in limit because a c/r is always only 1 BB back to you while in NL the pot gets a lot bigger to previous action.
So getting c/r hurts a lot more in NL, making you fold to a c/r while in limit you often can call to draw out easily.

limit = lot more action with a lot more hands to play with which = more fun. Less boring then folding folding folding trapping like in NL and getting busted sometimes imo.

Having a CC range out of the sb is highly exploitable by both BB and original raiser. The only time I do so is for specific game flow reasons(having a player in BB who will call one more bet w 100% of his range for instance). *Being 2/3 chip blinds does change the math a bit tho*

lol no.

I'm still not convinced this is a fold preflop for a good player. Then again I'm not convinced it's a good call either since I'm just guessing.

For 95% of the people doing it, it def is. I also misread and thought this was 9 handed. I still fold but it's not as bad as I made it out to be

Using the term UTG for 5 handed games is confusing. Just say hijack

I object to someone saying that it is *HIGHLY* exploitable by PFR *and* BB. That is just a no. Say SB flats with small to mid PPs, suited connectors, offsuit broadway-ish, suited A-rag, offsuit A-mid. That is a reasonable decapitated range people like to play. How does PFR and BB exploit that range.

This isn't NL with players 200bb deep. Except when the board is hi-hi-hi, SB can have strong hands and monsters for every flop. There's also a coldcaller, meaning PFR has to play pretty honestly 4way. I have no clue how you would conclude that BB can highly exploit the SB.

I fold PF and 3 bet the turn, both without much thought. I don't play much shorthanded so and not in the 2/3 chip blind structure so ymmv.

-hf

I didn't see there was another player in between. If it were HU to this point I stand by my original statement.

But doesn't the "range" that you mentioned vary by how you view Raiser and/or BB's play? If so calling here becomes an exploitation play not a GTO one. But if your range doesn't change(against two unknowns for instance), I would expect originally raiser to play close to optimally against you if they are any type of a capable player.

One of my problems with this hand was that I felt hitting the bottom 3 of a kind was transparent. You get much better odds than in HE but you just don't have the implied odds. I was absolutely shocked UTG bet this turn card against two players with what he ended up having. I don't think he should have bet this card with KJ, let alone AK (which he didn't have). If he gets raised he's folding to too many open enders the hijack shows up with (always raises turn not flop), and he doesn't have much information on my range.

I'm viewed as very tight and I called from the SB and called the flop, then the card that smacks my range peels and I should have been face up I think.

I feel like given that, 3bet is better than call here but that's in retrospect. Probably have to 3bet some% of the time if you move this into your calling range.

the fact villain bet the turn means he totally ignored 8x as being in my range but the other guy certainly has 8x.

I mean I think it's so close mathematically speaking that if the original raiser doesn't go into pot control when the 8 pairs probably means it's fine to play.

I just feel like in this game your hand is so face up and then you find out it's NOT lol

I think we need fold with 98o.

i think 98o is garbage and needs folding esp multiway oop. If im going multiway i want stronger hands or at least a flush draw for back up. If the coldcaller or the bb are big spots i can see calling with your standard overcall range; they need to play pretty bad post or be big dogs pre to justify getting involved. Imo I think its probably -ev to get involved with the preflop raiser with hands like qjo, qto, t9o with little invested.

may I ask where this 75/150 game is?

Maryland Live! Hanover, MD

The BB and the cold caller were terrible players so I was looking to get involved in pots in which both of them played.

Sounds like you're playing great just running kind of bad. Give it a few more shots I'm sure it will turn around for you

If a doctor says it, it must be true.

Even if that was the case, it's still possible for both strategies to profit thanks to the money in the pot. The more the big blind folds preflop, the more this will be true.