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Old 01-16-2012, 03:11 AM   #1
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BvB - Line Check

Posted this in the small stakes forum. Thought I'd post it here, as well.

- Villain is LAGTAG. One of the bigger winners in the game. He's capable of putting in a lot of bets with less than what's the apparent best hand (middle-pairs, overcards, etc.).
- I've open-completed the last three SBs and he's raised every time. I've chosen to do this because he's tough and aggressive, and I want to play smaller pots with medium-strength hands OOP.
- Last notable hand where I semi-bluffed against him: I called the flop with a OESD and k/r the turn. He 3! and I called and I binked the straight on the river (I k/r the river, too.)

I have K Q in the SB. I call, he raises, I 3!, he caps, I call.
(This might be too loose for LRRing?)

Flop J J 9
I check, he bets, I raise, he calls.
(I k/r the flop, because I k/r semi-bluffed the turn last hand against him.)

Turn T
I bet, he raises, I 3!, he caps.

River x
I check
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Old 01-16-2012, 09:14 AM   #2
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Re: BvB - Line Check

What better hands are you hoping fold at some point to your flop c/r and barrel? You don't have to semibluff every draw.
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Old 01-16-2012, 09:49 AM   #3
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Re: BvB - Line Check

@nchabazam. I agree on not semi-bluffing every draw, but a c/c line on the flop seems a bit weak.

@OP. I am meh on the flop c/r (c/c might be okay: see my above comment). I think the turn was fine. River, I c/c.

I mean, his cap on the turn screams "I has monster", so I'm not optimistic about getting called by a worse hand on a river c/r. So I c/c pretty much any river, even though it's a bit weak.
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Old 01-16-2012, 12:25 PM   #4
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Re: BvB - Line Check

Quote:
Originally Posted by nice_rack_charlie View Post
@nchabazam. I agree on not semi-bluffing every draw, but a c/c line on the flop seems a bit weak.

@OP. I am meh on the flop c/r (c/c might be okay: see my above comment).
So do you donk out? Have some conviction!
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Old 01-16-2012, 06:39 PM   #5
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Re: BvB - Line Check

I'd either raise pre or limp call depending on your overall strategy against this player. Since you said you were limping sb against him, I'd probably just complete/call your whole range.

What is your goal with the flop cr? Are you getting value from a worse hand? Or making a better one fold? You guys really need to learn to play without initiative.
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Old 01-16-2012, 06:54 PM   #6
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Re: BvB - Line Check

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Originally Posted by OnTheRail15 View Post
I'd either raise pre or limp call depending on your overall strategy against this player. Since you said you were limping sb against him, I'd probably just complete/call your whole range.
+1

Quote:
What is your goal with the flop cr? Are you getting value from a worse hand? Or making a better one fold? You guys really need to learn to play without initiative.
i dunno, i think A hi finds a fold sometimes, especially if the turn or river comes club, so it's not like the play is totally illogical.

would your preferred play be to c/c, c/c, (c/c or c/f)? assuming we don't improve.
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Old 01-16-2012, 07:05 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by gaming_mouse View Post

i dunno, i think A hi finds a fold sometimes, especially if the turn or river comes club, so it's not like the play is totally illogical.

would your preferred play be to c/c, c/c, (c/c or c/f)? assuming we don't improve.
Yes. I'd except that villain thinks hero is spazzy given the history he posted. If I think someone is spazzy there's little chance I'm folding a high if a club comes especially given the lrr.
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Old 01-16-2012, 07:16 PM   #8
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Re: BvB - Line Check

A high may find a fold if a K, Q, or 10 rolls off
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Old 02-07-2012, 11:36 AM   #9
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Re: BvB - Line Check

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Originally Posted by J_Locke View Post
A high may find a fold if a K, Q, or 10 rolls off
But wait--those cards would give us a very good that we would want some action with. Errr....wait.

Personally, I don't open complete or complete lrr so it's tough for me to say what I'd be doing in this spot. I see merit to the flop C/R here--I think we get some folds out of A hi hands if our image is right but since we just showed down a turn semi-bluff I don't think BB is going to be in the mood to fold unless the board comes down pretty poorly for him on the big streets. For these reasons, I like saving the c/r for when we make a hand in this spot.
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Old 02-07-2012, 05:50 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pid Koker View Post

-He's capable of putting in a lot of bets with less than what's the apparent best hand (middle-pairs, overcards, etc.).
What would he 4b the turn with?
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Old 02-07-2012, 06:24 PM   #11
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Re: BvB - Line Check

I don't like limp-3! nor the flop CR. I personally never have a never raise strategy from SBvBB. I'd either raise every time against certain weak/tight/passive players or have a completing range and a raising range. Against a strong player as you describe, I would have a fairly balanced competing range with some aces, kings, queens, and so on, but KQ would almost always be a raise. It's just such a strong hand and there's no need to complete for balance when you can have plenty of other hands that hit a K or Q high flop.

If I did decide to employ a 100% complete/fold strategy, like OTR said, I wouldn't limp-3! because that defeats the disguise part of my strategy and I can check-raise a lot of flops or turns when I hit.

I don't like the flop CR for the reasons mentioned. You generally want to bet/raise if you have a strong enough hand to get value or a weak enough hand that you expect to fold out worse hands. I think ck-call-ck-call-ck-fold is fine unimproved.

River is pretty close. There are 7 combos of JJ/TT/99 and 8 of AJ. I don't think a good player would cap KJ there considering you limp-3! preflop and are representing at least a jack. The only hand he could realistically be beating is QJ. I'm not even sure if he 4 bets with AJ. I'd probably just check-call.
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