I have been playing live LHE fairly seriously (2000+ hours/year) since 2013. For each of the last 3 years, it seems like I have a spell where I run like sheet.

During these downswings, I run a gamut of tilty fish emotions and poor logic where I can't believe all of these monkeys flinging their feces at the wall get there against me in the most savage of ways. After a month or so of losing in the best games, I begin to question whether I am broken and need to overhaul my game to adjust to the bingo-thon.

Inevitably, at some point the tide turns. My hands begin to hold up with greater frequency and some of my draws begin to get there and all is right with the world again.

What are your biggest downswings and what did you do to deal with it and work through the misery?

*photo caption "Nah...I don't think you have it...I raise!"

What limit do you play?

15-30 & 20-40 with a full kill

Complain to someone else at the table about it.

Or alternatively, look at my lifetime results and realize I didn't suddenly turn into a horrible player, things will turn eventually and the fools with all the chips right now won't have them a year from now.

I quit after Black Friday.

Then pulled a couple large wins last year or so and started to play more frequently.

One thing that helped me while playing part time was to learn new games (in my case NL live), game select a little stricter, discuss hands with someone you trust as being good (ideally someone that plays in your game).

Receiving coaching probably can't hurt either although good ones like Tommy Angelo/DeathDonkey/etc might be too pricey during a downswing.

What helped me the most was to just use Poker as supplemental income rather than main revenue source as the money won/lost stopped mattering as much. Quitting any sessions no matter game conditions after I've played over 8 hours also helped a lot. There was a great article about a NL pro who did a study on how poorly other pro X played in longer sessions for a PhD paper at a reputable school.

I had a >700BB downswing online pre BF. (it wasn't all bad luck)

Faith

I do the opposite of what most people suggest and play as much as possible when running bad. More hands get even faster. Biggest downswing hat sticks out was losing like 18-22k in a month playing 10-20 (pre rake back).

Online and live are way different in my opinion. Especially with lucrative rakeback+bonuses, that alone can make you decent money even if you only breakeven.

it sounds like a better understanding of variance (you are playing a gambling game and cannot always win) would be useful, as well as more self-confidence (i assume you're winning in the long run and are approaching a decent sample at this point) that you can draw on to get you through the runbad.

how big are the downswings that you're worrying about? up until 250 or 300 big bets isn't even noteworthy imo. so if you're sweating something much smaller than that it could be useful to adjust your expectations some.

you mention that you tilt and do goofy stuff when losing - it's good that you've identified that. based on that mental state i'd advise taking more breaks, setting a stop loss, playing shorter sessions, quitting as soon as you notice yourself tilting, etc etc.

talking poker with other solid winning players is always useful to make sure your thought process is good and that you've still got a good approach to the game.

I have tried to adjust my expectations for our game, but given the level of play here it is tough to swallow at times. Each of the last 3 years I have had a downswing between 250-350BB.

It is good for me to hear that others have experienced some tough runs as well. It is just tough when you are in the middle of it.

I'm going to assume that a lot of your downswings are snowball related. You lose and the monkeys win so you tell yourself that the monkeys must be doing something better than you, and now you adjust and play faux monkey style.

Stop it.

One of the best compliments I have ever received was "you know when to get out of the way of the hot player."

What he meant was sometimes it's ok to throw away slightly +ev hands that you may have 3bet (e.g. K9ss otb vs. LAG co raise) if you're running bad. Note: This is not because you're going to get drawn out on and get all woe is me, but because a confident winning image in live play is an underrated value. And unfortunately sometimes you need to get out of the way of the terrible players and let them spew around for a while.

Wait it out. Try not to tilt. Write down literally every hand to give yourself something to do and to track that you're playing your A game - I have scores and scores of notes on my phone - and eat a salad. Come back the next day with straight shoulders and you'll do fine.

Even though the little tilty voice in my head gets louder during these runs, I try my best to make good decisions during each hand. But sometimes, I feel like I've woken up in bizarro world where the more negative EV your play is, the more you are rewarded. All the jammed naked draws, 3 bet cold calling, UTG limping, donking into an obviously strong raiser, calling bottom pair where two pair or trips will lose you more money only to back into some weird runner runner one card straight or flush, and other genius plays come out smelling like a rose.

An area I'm trying hard to work on is entitlement tilt. I keep trying to tell myself that there is a reason why our game is so good...thank you for your action sir! But it feels like with each subsequent subpar session, my resolve weakens a bit.

Anyhow, I know this will pass eventually. I just wondered how everyone else dealt with this stuff.

I do what Crazylond and John_Locke do.

I've kept thorough records since '98 and it really helps to look at a long term graph and see that what feels like total hell now, is really just a blip in the overall scheme of things.

I also tend to grind more hours when running bad (thinking I'll get into the long run quicker). But that can be a dangerous thing to do bc very few people play on the consistently high level as John_Locke does -lol. It's also important to get your rest and remain alert and objective about your play. That's not easy when running bad. So I'd say it's probably not a bad idea for most of us to take a short break and get our mind away from poker for a while. Or at least keep sessions a bit shorter and and giving ourselves a mental break by engaging in other activities.

I'm coming off on of the worst 3 month stretches in my 17 year career. I moved to a new room, knew none of the locals, and was intimidated by some clearly superior players who seemed to have pretty balanced games with nothing obvious to exploit. I was constantly over and under adjusting. Add to this I have plenty of leaks to begin with and was truly running like crap. Nothing worse than playing bad/running bad. It's not the running bad that bothers me, it's the long flat runs. Started off on a $6k swong, grinded it back, and followed that by another $5k swong, grind that back, and 3 months into my new location I was up very little from the games and stuck living expenses.

So I'd say get plenty of rest, remain objective about your play, and keep in mind that each hand is an individual event. It can feel like the cards know you're supposed to be running bad. It got the the point where I was looking down at AA or would flop top set in a 6-way capped pot and wince wondering how much I was gonna lose and to what! -lol. But cards really have no memory! Good luck!

What's always served me fairly well is simply taking breaks and stepping away from the game. Sometimes it's a week, a few weeks or sometimes a few months. I always come back feeling better and seem to enjoy the game a lot more.

I've never played for a living so full timers may handle downswings in different ways. I also have many other interests/activities and most importantly, family to occupy my time. Everyone handles downswings in their own way because it's their own downer and not yours.

I've also cut my overall session lengths and the # of times I play way back. Want to keep it fun and enjoyable. Kind of got into a cycle a few years ago of feeling that I needed to be playing a lot. Ended up spending a lot of time in rooms. Was a bit too much for me.

PS. Also, I know for a fact I've had some of my worst sessions when really tired or not 100% over a cold etc. Never works out well.

That's a fine solution for a rec, but OP stated he plays 2000+ hours a year and probably doesn't have that luxury.

They have to. Not many people can afford to take a few months off just bc things start getting tough at the office. Not trying to be facetious, just saying... I agree with everything else you said.

kevin - one of your worst stretches in a 17 year career was losing $6k in a game i assume is 20/40 or bigger?

No, I've had several close to or > 200 big bet slides in live play before. I also had an almost 8 month flat run once. And I realize it's statistically possible to get worse than that. But I've had the luxury of playing in probably the softest lineups in the country and against very few pros. Well that's not true...anyone can be a pro. But very few winning experts. IOW, my game got soft!

The first 3 months in this new location has certainly been one of the biggest struggles of my career (maybe I should've used the word struggle instead of run), bc not only did it seem like my hands consistently weren't realizing EV, but I was also putting in more hours against players who to me, border on very good - to world class - jumping in and out of my games. Not to sound snobby, but where I used to play, you couldn't put together a lhe lineup where I wouldn't feel pretty good about my edge. That's def not the case where I'm at now. The bottom line is, I'm not really that good, but you don't have to be as long as there are enough others who are worse lol.

But I'm giving myself a little break bc I was very unfamiliar with my entire surroundings inside and outside the poker room. I was (and still am) questioning whether I can make it in such a room. Things have been going much better over my last 500 hours. All you can do is try and improve and play your best. I honestly think that what doesn't kill you in poker makes you stronger. Every major epiphany I've ever had has come from a bad run.

I don't mean to turn this thread into my own personal diary, but I thought sharing what other's go though might help someone else. We all live in our own private hell when it comes to running bad.

Kevin it's also very tough to move to a new room. If you sit in a game with 8
Refs they all know how each other plays and it's very easy for them to adapts and adjust to your game. You have to learn how all 8 people play which is a much tougher task.

Just to add a couple things:

- You say you play in games with a full kill. This greatly increases your variance per bb. I imagine 200+bb in a full kill game isn't necessarily that huge of a swing.

- Sure, there are the mental game approaches that are important. However, in my opinion, there really is no substitute for playing very well rolled. If you have a bankroll of 600bb, 700bb, 800bb+, then the downswings won't hurt as much (obv). I know this can be outside the control of people's situations to an extent, but there really is no substitute. Having other sources of income can be another form of this security.

for the low low price of a beer, I'll record a message for you saying youre being dumb and to stop it. That way every time he calls 3 cold pre flop and scoops the pot you can play it and my soothing insults will remind you that bad players wins lot of pots.

You play in a game with lots of loose players preflop, who are aggressive and play fairly well post. Trying to copy them just makes things worse and worse for you. You'll be making bigger and bigger mistakes preflop and you haven't reached the level yet where you can "make up" for bad preflop play with expert post flop play. not that they really are either, but it seems to you that they are. You can't out monkey them simply because they're better monkeys than you.

You've been stuck on this problem for a while, so I doubt anyone will say anything novel or new to help you that you haven't heard. You're going to have to figure it out for yourself. Only thing I can suggest is to maybe track the results of a few of the bad players you think are crushing and after a while you'll see they're giving back on the next day just as much as they're winning on the first.

[MEMORIZING]
You can't out monkey them
You can't out monkey them
You can't out monkey them
[/MEMORIZING]

Beer coming...be there April 27th

I want in on this action too.

Hmm. His price was the VIP price because I know him and know that a friendly reminder every once in a while to get out of his head and to quit thinking tilting thoughts could help

For a custom personalized Zomg insult, the regular cost is enough alcohol to get me out of my normal shy, quiet, reserved state and then record whatever organic insult I come up with as we play