It really could not hurt to read SSHE, winning in tough limit Holdem games, and reading about 5 years worth of strat posts here.

I'll note that the couple guys here who I know played low stakes and then were coached, had a VERY short learning curve.

I'd also second the notion that ,if you table select well while playing abc tag, that would be another good way to learn, assuming you've mastered ABC tag already. Just make sure you don't play in a laggy game.

In LA, best bet is to understand SSHE and play $8-16 while you continue to learn. $8-16 has a high drop, but it's still a beatable game and at least at Commerce the food is free.

for midstakes live you're going to start encountering some opponents who can tie their shoes, so these are the stakes where i think it's important to continue to build onto your solid foundation (which is more than enough to beat lower stakes games) by adding in some intermediate-type skills/concepts.

by previous solid foundation i mean things like a good understanding of equity, pot odds, reasonable handranges, valuebetting, the bet/fold line, etc.

for continuing to strengthen your game i would consider things like working on game and seat selection, tilt control/mental game, semibluffing, balance (and how it relates to exploitative stuff), etc.

i'm sure there are things i'm forgetting in both of those lists so please don't treat them as absolutes.

a problem for lots of people who "reach" the midstakes is that they've done so with a lot of bad habits that they don't realize are bad habits because they ran well previously while using these habits. some common examples i see are overuse of the freecard play, fancy play syndrome, misuse of donking vs checkraising, tilt issues, bankroll management issues, an unclear understanding of where their money comes from/table dynamics, MUBS/lack of valuebetting, or just general unbalanced type play.

there are still plenty of great midstakes games out there but some of the time you're going to be in reasonably tough ones with some players who are solid/very good and going to be able to take advantage of these leaks in your game. so now is the time to try and patch up these leaks. the problem with most of the books is they are either unaware of these leaks, or, worse, promulgate them as correct play. or the books are just several years old and out of date. as far as ways to improve, i'm a firm believer in trying to identify and plug leaks (disclaimer: i am a coach and as a coach this is one of the main things i work on with students since usually by default the players with the fewest leaks will be the winners), as well as solidify/improve the foundation.

a great way to train for live midstakes games is to play micros/small stakes online. internet games are tougher and more aggressive and something like a .5/1 or 1/2 game will be great inexpensive training for a midstakes live game. the money cost is negligible in relation to a midstakes bankroll (put ~500 online to start with and the risk is tiny even in today's uncertain internet climate). you get to put in lots of hands quickly vs reasonably tough opposition (which will help find/expose your leaks and uncertainties about certain spots and themes much more quickly than playing in slow soft live games would) and get lots training/repetitions. you could post your hands on an internet forum and get feedback from a range of players including many solid ones. you'll be able to find poker buddies to study with. if you use tracking software like PT or HEM you can save all your hands and look at/analyze the data. you could consider working with a coach or training site as well.

other parts of the blueprint that i would recommend:

taking a look at a poker training site such as deucescracked (disclaimer: i work for deucescracked) which is producing new limit holdem coaching videos all the time. you can also find zillions of good videos in their archives. these are in most cases going to be more applicable to you and have higher content levels than a book. they also have forums similar to 2+2 where you can talk poker with other players.

if you're serious about your game (something like where poker is a very determined hobby for you, or you're semiprofessional/professional/considering going pro), then considering a coach is worthwhile as well imo. having access to someone who's been in your position before, has been a winning player around LHE for a long time, and is able to help find/plug your leaks -- often this can be speedier and more useful than the self-study route.

anyway, that's more or less my blueprint right now and upon a quick re-reading of it i'm pretty happy with what i've typed up. i think players of most skill levels could benefit from this sort of plan. as with most hobbies/games/professions, things like self-motivation, free time, a competitive spirit, and an enjoyment of poker -- these are going to be very useful things which will help you in your Quest () the fact that you've already found 2+2 and are posting here is a step in the right direction imo.

anyway, sorry for having typed a novel. i hope you and/or others find it useful, and lots of us are always happy to talk about this stuff any time!

good luck

I agree, Doug. my purpose was not to "flame" that book, I was just agreeing with the point that there are not many books relevant today, except Intelligent Poker Player and Stox's book.

Fair. The way I sucked at poker back then is so different than how I suck at poker now.

I assume this book covers limits 10/20 and 20/40?

This question doesn't really have a lot of meaning, it depends on the game you play in. It doesn't cover high stakes online games. You'll have to figure out how to make adjustments depending on your opponents. There is no set recipe to beat most LHE games.

For an example, we were out in Vegas during the WSOP. The Bellagio 10/20 was kind of nitty and raked at $4 per hand (?). The 20/40 I played in was looser and had some meh aggression. I think most people would have an easier time beating the 20 than the 10. That was a small sample of games. In general I expect the 10 to be softer than the 20 in the same room, especially one that offers higher limits. If you live elsewhere, your 10 and 20 games are likely different.

I do NOT play online as I live in the US and it is a pain. I play only Live in Atlantic City. 10/20 and 20/40. So while experience playing is great still looking for reading material. One book at a time. The book I am asking about says small stakes poker. That is why before I purchase I am wondering is it covering things in the 10/20 to 20/40 range or is it like the Dan Harrington book for levels 5/10 and under

you should join deucescracked or cardrunners if this is the case, in addition to reading to small stakes he, the stox book, and the intelligent poker player

This is what I see many of the "good" 8/16 players do at the 20 games when they move up. They lose a lot of money in the first few months as a result.

Their BB defending with only good aces, kings and PP plus their k/f all flops missed is an almost guaranteed way to go broke against one or two thinking players.

I was an autodidact, so I'm the wrong person to talk to about this.

That said, if you want to follow my route, it was as follows:

1. I didn't read a single poker book until well after I was making at least small amounts of money playing poker. So what, then, did I do? Well, a couple of things. First of all I set aside a bunch of money that I was prepared to lose while I was learning, which I mostly did playing 4/8 live and 10c/25c online. Second, I read lots of stuff on the Internet. I actually started at other poker sites, mostly flopturnriver.com, but I eventually found 2+2 as well. The Micro Limit Library contains more basic LHE knowledge than any poker book I have ever seen. Yes, this was all written by microstakes players who play online in cheap games. But you know what? Those games can be decently tough-- indeed, most of the players I play against, day in and day out, in mid-stakes live games could have never made money playing 25c/50c on PokerStars back in the day. You are reading posts written by players who could and did.

2. There is really no substitute for practice. This means you are going to play a bunch of LHE and you are going to lose at first. But don't just play. Be a critical thinker. Ask yourself questions as you play. Pay attention. Watch what other people do. Very soon, you will start to see the difference between good players and bad players. The good players play tighter and more aggressively pre-flop, and also build pots and make sensible calldowns and folds post-flop. Once you figure out who these guys are, watch what they do. And ask yourself whether what they are doing makes sense. Further, as you pay attention, start thinking about how YOU can act in a way that takes advantage of others' mistakes. I didn't hear the term "exploitative play" until a couple of years after I started playing poker, but that IS what I was doing. (Of course, there are all sorts of arguments as to how far exploitative play gets you versus a competing style called "game theory optimal" play. I am NOT really intending to weigh in that debate here. I am only saying that it is extremely healthy for a beginning player to start identifying how other players play and devising playing styles that take advantage of their mistakes.)

3. Review your sessions. When I first started playing live poker, I did this by using spiral bound notebooks. These notebooks were a carryover from my first gambling love, horse racing, where an old racetrack hand recommended that I use them to keep track of every bet I made so I could review them later, know how I was doing, and think about how to play better. Every time I played, I wrote down what limit I played, how much I bought in for, how much I won or lost, and everything I could remember about key hands and players. Then I would review the notebook entries the next day and ask myself how I could play hands differently, and what mistakes I made.

Of course, when you play online, PokerTracker does all this for you. But you still need to actually review the sessions and look back at key hands so you can think about how to play them better.

4. Post hands on poker sites, and grunch threads involving other players' hands, so you can obtain the views of other, more experienced players. You will improve your game a lot by doing this. For all but the very best players, "there are more things on heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy". I figured out plenty of things on my own-- for instance, I never really had to look at a starting hand chart in developing a reasonable raising range. For whatever reason, that was apparent to me. But many other things about the game were not apparent to me-- I learned them by posting hands online and having others critique my play.

5. When you have the basics down pat, then look at books that are aimed at improving the play of decent players, because that's how you further refine your game. Winning in Tough Hold 'Em Games will teach you how to play heads up and in blind stealing situations; The Intelligent Poker Player is the best single book I've read on advanced limit play and will show you how to construct your ranges so you can't be exploited by good players.

That was my route. It was not the only possible route. But I want to emphasize-- the real answer to your question is that there is no book that is a substitute for a ton of hard work. You will make a lot of mistakes. We all do. You have to play a lot of hands. And the learning process is a process of slow and steady improvement, not of simply learning a simple-to-memorize system. It's true that poker is more of a science than an art-- mathematics rules everything we do, even though psychology is a powerful weapon against the right player or group of players. But the underlying mathematics are complex and can be fluid (especially if you play full ring games where several players see each flop), and you will slowly get better and better at the underlying calculations. There is no shortcut, no simple set of principles that will get you where you want to go. You just have to grind it out and have the personal commitment to get better and better.

And most players are losing players because, fundamentally, they don't have that commitment. Reading a poker book won't change that for them.

There's also a big difference between 20/40 and 40/80. 20 doesn't require much skill beyond abc poker to beat, and 40 requires a mucher stronger understanding of the game and/or your opponents. This is chiefly because you see very few poker professionals at 20 (its hard to make a living at that level), but you see a lot at 40.

I think for 20 any number of books will do, including some of the ones listed. For 40 I think watching some of MikeL's videos on DeucesCracked might be helpful, or getting some sort of mentor or coach.

I haven't read a book on LHE theory/play for a while (with the exception of a book called "Play of Hands" by Roy Cooke, which someone just gave me, so I read it), but I am always reading some poker book (right now I am very focused on learning O8 because it's a leak in my mixed game sessions). But I don't read the books because I will take the author's ideas as wrote, but rather because I am always interested to know how other people think about the game. E.g., most people on this forum think Roy Cooke's ideas about LHE are antiquated crap, at best. But I have to admit from reading his book recently that he discussed certain key concepts in a manner I had not considered previously and which I found very helpful. I also think it's worth while to read Hold'em for Advanced Players because this will give you a sense of what most people sitting in your average 20 game will have read. (And, for the record, I do think there are certain concepts in that book that are very much worthwhile, despite assertions to the contrary--though I agree that, on the whole, it is out-of-date and fails to address today's game conditions by and large.) Also, I think Jen Harman's chapter in Super System 2 has some good info.

But I also agree that there is absolutely no substitute whatsoever for a mentor. I had read a million poker books, seems like, before I started learning the game from a Greek guy who was a wonderful, fearless player. Until I started learning play from him, I couldn't properly apply half of what I had read, or even half of what I had intuited about the game on my own. I learned a lot about my own style of play from watching my mentor play, and I made bigger adjustments based on that than I could have ever made from reading books alone.

And, as noted above, you simply have to put in the hours. Once you've sat at a 20 game long enough, you'll start to see certain winning players making certain types of plays over and over which are not part of your arsenal. Learn how to implement them properly. Watch what wins. That's how you learn the game, at the end of the day!

Finally, I also agree that the difference between the 20 games and the 40 games can be substantial, but I also think if you are able to emulate the best play you see on the 20 game, you'll be able to succeed in the 40 game. Now moving up from there... I'm still working on that one myself

The concepts in Hold'em for Advanced players are the epitome of the TAG ABC style of LHE many players employ when they start playing the 10 and 20 games. Many have read it (at least that is so on the East Coast and in the South). Many who haven't read it play the style advocated for in the book--they've just learned the concepts from an amalgam of other sources (e.g., websites, Cardplayer articles, other books, and sht like that).

So I don't know why it's so "lol." But whatever. Haters gonna hate.

Most 20/40 games are not full of abc tags. I think that's why you're getting laughed at