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07-26-2016 , 07:22 PM
9 or 10 handed 20 40 with half kill. Kill is on so button posts 30 and game plays 30 60, with 10/20 blinds.

Miraculously folds around to the button who checks his option which means his hand is especially bad. I raise the infamous AJ from the small blind, big blind insta calls, button calls.

BB is a good but not great player. This is how he makes a living. He tends to be uber agreessive preflop in position but can do the occasionally toss in a bad cold call or a limp with a hand he doesn't want to fold. He is smart enough to check back flops when he should.

Recently he capped my utg raise over a aggros 3 from the button with the AJ sooooooted and made a backdoor flush after checking the turn in a 10 handed game.

So flop comes J74 rainbow. I bet, villain raises, and button folds.

Gas now or screenplay?
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07-26-2016 , 07:26 PM
I start bombing
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07-26-2016 , 07:59 PM


Spoiler:
gimme the gas
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07-26-2016 , 08:11 PM
I think our range is wide enough here that we can delay our entire value range.
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07-26-2016 , 08:13 PM
Could but anyone who is smart enough to check back I'd rather just start dumping on
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07-26-2016 , 09:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZOMG_RIGGED!
Could but anyone who is smart enough to check back I'd rather just start dumping on
how often are you raising this flop and c/ing back turn hu?
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07-26-2016 , 09:30 PM
38.7%
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07-26-2016 , 10:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZOMG_RIGGED!
Could but anyone who is smart enough to check back I'd rather just start dumping on
Sure, but his range is such that he bets all turns, no? All jacks, some 7s, even **** like 89 bets the turn.
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07-26-2016 , 10:38 PM
His preflop range here is some what limited, no? He called a larger bet in position.
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07-26-2016 , 10:44 PM
Yeah, he probably bets most turns and if that's your take them c/r'ing the turn is fine. My default, vacuum strat against people who check back is just to pound them
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07-27-2016 , 04:23 AM
i'd think if villain was good he wouldn't be c/'ing back non- ace, k or q turns after raising flop. or maybe i'm just that bad?
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07-27-2016 , 04:26 AM
fwiw, my default against decent + players is to delay c/r, and probably donk ace turns, and if villain's bad or tag i just jam flop
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07-27-2016 , 08:52 AM
I'd expect a 7 to check quite a few cards actually (and seems reasonable to raise this flop with 7x).
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07-27-2016 , 09:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ninefingershuffle
His preflop range here is some what limited, no? He called a larger bet in position.
I don't think he should be folding very much here actually.
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07-27-2016 , 11:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdr0317
I'd expect a 7 to check quite a few cards actually (and seems reasonable to raise this flop with 7x).
I was thinking any PP under J or 7 he has should raise the flop to force out Btn. Depending on thin this can be, and given he checks back more than most, I'd prefer to start jamming now. If you have a better handle on his game then you can do whatever, but based on this player discription he's going to to the type I prefer to not wait against.

If you do wait I think you should probably donk an A turn though
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07-27-2016 , 12:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donk Quixote
I don't think he should be folding very much here actually.
I think he should be calling 0 percent of his hands here.
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07-27-2016 , 02:49 PM
Seems to me a decent concern would be if he is going to fold most / all worse hands to a check-raise on the turn. Unless you're going to somehow being showing up with a decent number of bluffs there, you don't want that to happen and will ger more value just jamming it now. Putting myself in BB's shoes, I'm likely to pay off / call down with more to a flop 3-bet than to a turn check-raise.
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07-27-2016 , 03:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ninefingershuffle
I think [BB] should be calling 0 percent of his hands here.
The problem is that BB has incentive to see a lot of hands. Has money invested, with position, with a third player in the pot with a terrible hand. Yes, getting BTN's dead money is great. But, given the price BB is getting, he'll want to continue with ~60%+ of his range. 3b'ing all 60% is extreme. There are hands like 57s, K8o that are fine to flat with, and pretty bad to 3b.
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07-27-2016 , 04:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by phunkphish
The problem is that BB has incentive to see a lot of hands. Has money invested, with position, with a third player in the pot with a terrible hand. Yes, getting BTN's dead money is great. But, given the price BB is getting, he'll want to continue with ~60%+ of his range. 3b'ing all 60% is extreme. There are hands like 57s, K8o that are fine to flat with, and pretty bad to 3b.
I'd have to run the numbers, but given how wide my range is, my intuition is that three betting everything to get the button to fold out his equity and to have initiative is worth the extra bet preflop even with 57
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07-27-2016 , 04:42 PM
People fold preflop after opening the btn?
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07-27-2016 , 06:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZOMG_RIGGED!
People fold preflop after opening the btn?
He posted a kill and checked.
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07-27-2016 , 06:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chillrob
Seems to me a decent concern would be if he is going to fold most / all worse hands to a check-raise on the turn.
I actually don't find this to be a concern at all; in fact, I'd love to play the guy who will fold everything that doesn't beat AJ.
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07-27-2016 , 06:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ninefingershuffle
He posted a kill and checked.
Weird. Yeah, I realized I had misremembered the action and thought I had deleted the post. Guess I screwed that up too
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07-27-2016 , 06:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdr0317
I actually don't find this to be a concern at all; in fact, I'd love to play the guy who will fold everything that doesn't beat AJ.
Sure if you know he is doing that and you take advantage of him by bluffing more often that what would usually be considered optimal. Have to make sure you have some good bluff candidates in this spot though. And if it's someone you don't play with very often you won't get to the point of knowing. Between this and the possibility of villain checking the turn, I think with this hand in a vacuum you're usually going to make more by just keeping the betting lead.
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07-27-2016 , 06:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chillrob
Sure if you know he is doing that and you take advantage of him by bluffing more often that what would usually be considered optimal. Have to make sure you have some good bluff candidates in this spot though. And if it's someone you don't play with very often you won't get to the point of knowing. Between this and the possibility of villain checking the turn, I think with this hand in a vacuum you're usually going to make more by just keeping the betting lead.
I think I'd have enough.

Though touching on this, I think you're correct that smashing the gas is going to work out better for us in the long run.
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