3 handed game with lag player better than me and a complete fish that's very easy to run over. for argument's sake, let's say the lag player is equal skill level. anyways, he is on my left and fish that folds way to much is on my right. should i quit this game?

no, change seats.

If you are as good as good player you should make $ in either seat, if he is better then you could easily lose $ if he is on your left.

Changing seats in this spot can be seen as sorta scummy IMO

Don't quit. Seat changing 3 handed is more than sorta scummy imo

Even 4 or 5 handed you really shouldn't be changing seats very often, if at all. If you ask this question, there's a good chance you aren't winning very much in the game if the fish just plays kinda tight passive and folds too much.

In some places seat changing short handed is not only scummy but downright against the rules.

so you think that the overlays that tight fish is providing us more than makes up for me playing oop to the lag for most of the hands? i really don't know how to figure out ev's for certain spots. how would i go about it?

and please, don't let this turn into a thread about seat changing. i and (i think) most other people on this forum already understand this.

yeah i would be fairly disgusted if i was playing 3 handed and someone changed positions who was not a fish.

especially if this caused the fish to wonder what was going on and possibly become uncomfortable and start to think about quitting us both.

Fish who folds too much 3handed is the nuts. So much dead money.
Fish who calls too much 3handed I'd be more likely to walk away from.

On your BTN, LAG should still be folding 50%+ of his hands in the SB. If he's overdefending because of the fish's dead money, you're still in a good spot. All the money flows to you. Profit.

On your SB, LAG is in the BB. Your blind gets stolen less from BTN fish. You get to play way more hands in a BvB spot instead of folding. Money that should be flowing to to BTN fish is not. Profit.

On your BB, your blind also gets stolen less, and now you're IP in a BvB spot. Profit.

Profit Profit Profit.

+1

Would you straddle here? Every round?

only with permission from the other players.

Folds too much pre? I would quit. High variance, small edge, if any. I also don't play enough hours to balance that out.

I would stay and would argue it's a decent spot. You got position on the fish and having the button vs a LAG SB and a fish BB seems way too profitable to be quitting. BvB can be tricky against the LAG but adjust gears while running over the fish BvB.

Would never switch seats for what it's worth. Especially 3 handed.

I literally disagree with every statement you made.

i disagree with every statement you made.

but i pretty much always do. no offense.

Your hypothesis is LAG is equal to you in skill. If the table is 3 people of your skill level, you'd be neutral EV minus rake. Now you replace a LAG with a mega fish who folds too much. This situation is way better than the previous one, and in a dominating way. Yet you think the game is worth quitting.

I think this post is seriously really bad.

If there is one mega fish in a 3 handed game, the other two players will have a HUGE Edge. Their -EV flows to only one of 2 people instead of many more. Because the fish folds so much, this REDUCES variance. You will consistently steal a lot of small pots, see fewer showdowns, get rivered less, and better pot control when fish does play a hand.

The only way variance is high is if you are comparing 3handed to 9 handed.

The numbers of hours you play is IRRELEVANT as long as you practice proper bankroll management. Players should not be afraid of variance If the EV is positive, especially this good.


Ok your turn Steve. Tell me how everything I've written is wrong.

Intuitively it seems like the fish position shouldnt be as big of a factor 3 handed. Just get in there how often do you ever get to play 3 handed live, enjoy it.

It's still not really clear what kind of fish this is. If his biggest problem is playing too tight 3 handed, I would leave. Also, steveistheman84 didn't mention anything about this, but you should really consider other games that are available and what game will provide the most $/hr. It's quite common for a lower stakes game to be more profitable.

Yes, that is what I am comparing it to.

Sorry that this probably doesn't relate to the OP, but I think this topic would make for some good discussion. I know it's "all one big session" and you shouldn't worry about how you are doing in one hour, one day or maybe even one year. But it does start to matter after more time goes on. I find the one year period interesting because many poker players probably track their stats that way. Psychologically, we want that one year stretch to look good. If a winning, high volume player can have a losing year, then it's even more likely that a winning, low volume player will have a losing year. Maybe that doesn't affect you psychologically, but it's probably bad for taxes.

Another problem that relates to the original post is that with low volume, you may never really know if you are a true winner. How long would you play in a game where you thought you were a winner, but were losing?

TLDR: I don't think you should play high variance games if you can't put in high volume. Flame away.

KL ill leave your latter stuff alone for now as its possibly interesting but the early part of your last post is just blatantly incorrect. Ask any winning online player with a large database and he will show you how his winrate increases as number of players at table decreases. You aren't going to make more $ moving down in stakes to a full table ever unless you are a fish shorthanded.

Oh and being too tight 3 handed is probably the single worst leak, I mean imagine a guy was too tight heads up, you could almost never lose to him

Maybe I am. I try to be honest about my skill level to myself. There's definitely games I would quit where an expert could win a lot. I certainly don't avoid shorthanded, but as with any game, I need a good reason to be there.

Isn't this benefiting the other player more than us? I agree that it does benefit us, I just feel like it is being overstated.

Reduced rake? good spot.

normal rake? eww spot. Your big blind is in trouble.

you can slide into seat 2/3/7/8 or away from the other 2 players seeking more space in all scenarios without ruffling feathers usually. if someone is likely to get offended for any reason I would just stay ^_^

i agree seat changing 3 handed can be viewed as scummy/edge seeking, but when people view it as something else it's NP from my experience

If you change your position relative to the other players I disagree.

glad to see i'm not the only one who does this