I totally agree with this. And I'm not good enough to know exactly what the gto is here even though I try to implement it against good players. I mean at the time I did bet 88 and it seemed fine but I thought maybe it would be a good hand to consider checking with and some smart people in this thread independently suggested it and here we are. I still don't know the answer with any level of certainty.

Pete: I don't think bb should be donking much as part of gto, my understanding is that if the opener is checking back a "good" range the gto play oop involves 3 betting before the flop more instead of 0% which we frequently do in this spot. Anyway pretty good thread as it turns out this is not an easy or clear spot. And yes I can count the number of players I think are "good" in this game on one hand so I don't know how else I should describe the read.

I've never looked at a GTO approximation for preflop in this spot but I don't doubt that you're right. I have no idea how BB plays, but a lot of big winners never 3-bet from the BB here, and for some reason I used that as my baseline assumption and was subconsciously assuming everyone else did too. I don't know if you want to contribute your preflop read (approx range) now that the players have been outed, but I think that would help get everyone on the same page.

If the big blind is check folding those hands then I agree the bluff with JT is good.

I agree with 3 betting preflop some % instead of 0% in the BB to adjust against LAGTAG and TAGs who check back a decent range as the preflop raiser.

The consensus 2+2 pro and LAGTAG pro strategy online and live is to call 100% of hands in the BB in HU pots against a steal. However, I've started to 3 bet the BB more often against Hijack, Cutoff, Button preflop raisers who are clearly LAGTAG and have a wide open range based on position but will also check back the flop with a wide enough range but good enough/balanced range.

I think of it more like as though I'm playing a HU table in the BB against a LAGTAG with the assumption that the preflop raiser has a wide range preflop and will check back a good range on the flop. Against certain opponents I start to 3 bet less from the BB in HU tables and in 9max or 6 max tables but depending on metagame of the match and I think calling 100% of hands in the BB against a LAGTAG open raise in 9max or 6max is not always correct but is definitely player dependent on how often they check back the flop as the preflop raiser, etc.

Sorry to derail the thread.

As I mentioned earlier, I would continuation bet 88 on this flop. Think these are spots I would mix it up against a thinking and winning LAGTAG though since I'd rather incorporate mixing my play for metagame purposes rather than attempting to play GTO.

Depends on the flop. On this flop, BB range is ahead of a BTN or CO range. My GTO solver says BB should be donking ~80%.

Yeah but you are making the same mistake...sure if you just plunk two ranges down in this spot that would be gto, but a gto bot would not be in this spot if he has a balanced 3 betting range preflop here. Which my contention is he would.

Yes. A gto bot does have a 3b range bb v btn. That's moot. We can plunk down any portion of the hand and find a gto solution from then on given ranges. Where is the mistake?

lol. needs more love.