Because it may not be the best play?

Wasn't me. I've actually never played poker in Vegas. Maybe next year though!

Why not?

It was.

He was gonna free card me. Duh.

Thank you. After seeing the results, I now understand that he was going to free card you.

He was going to free card you on the flop because he knew you had him beat and you wouldn't fold, so barreling would be pointless. Might as well take the free card!

But since the river paired the A, your range became more polarized (and less likely to hold an ace) so you were probably bluffing. Awesome!

Nevermind. OnTheRail15 said it was.

Glad you finally understand.

I'm still a bit confused. Please clarify.

You posted the following:

You said he was going to free card you, which means you knew what his hand was. (I still don't see it since there is no flush draw on this flop, which is the most common draw to "free card". So, the only hands that make any sense are very rare (98s, 58s and 54s) given the preflop action. But you said he was going to and so I'll defer to your profound wisdom on that matter.) Which means he can't have an ace, doesn't it? But then you c/r the river because you think he DOES have an ace. That seems contradictory. Please explain.

If he 3bet the river were you going to fold, since the hand you put him on (straight draw looking for a free card) just got there?

I three bet the flop because I thought he might have a bad hand. I xr the river because I thought he'd bet call with worse. How would you have played it?

Now I'm really confused. Initially you said, "He was gonna free card me. Duh." That's different than simply having a bad hand. An OESD or a flush draw is not typically a showdown-able hand, but it's not necessarily a "bad" hand given that it can improve to a very strong hand. Such a hand often has a good deal of equity, especially in a 4-way pot. A "bad" hand is just that; a bad hand (at least to me).

Based on everything I've read, it's pretty clear I'd have played it wrong.

People free card with lots of hands, draws, middle pairs, random overcard even weak top pair.

The only thing I don't understand is your statement that OTR is polarized on river and have Ax less often after A paired. I have no idea what this means and expect him to have Ax at the exact same frequency on this river than on any non Ace river

I think that 3 betting this flop is just so laughably correct I don't even see how there's a discussion about it.

We can only consider 2 options; 3bet, or call and x/r turn. It's not a good spot to delay til turn for a few reasons:

- sb calls 2 cold. This may scare villain into checking back the turn a lot

- sb is trapped in the middle, so we are forgoing 2 more bets immediatly, and if turn checks through we've now missed 3 BBs.

- Board isn't super wet, but still wet enough that certain turn cards kill our action by either putting a scare card up that makes villain check behind, or a card thats bad enough for us to no longer want to x/r

- Spewers gonna spew! Most importantly, since villain is a spewtard, give him the chance to spew as much as possible. You can't cap every street if you slowplay!

If 3betting the flop is "laughably correct", that must mean c/ring the turn is "laughably incorrect". Could you please elaborate on why?

Is it not true that with a 2nd ace on the board, hero is less likely to have one in his hand given that there are only 2 aces unaccounted for, not 3?

Because if they check the turn you can't raise it

If his range after 4 betting preflop and b/3b the A-6-7 floo contains an Ace 100% of the time, how does he appearance of the second ace make that 100% number become smaller?

I mean all the A does is change his hand from like xx combos of Ax to a smaller xx combos of Ax. But if 100% of both ranges contain Ac, the amount of total hands in that range is meaningless. This seems rather obvious

Why is assumed hero has an ace 100% of the time?

What do you think his range is after 4 betting preflop and b/3b A-6-7 rainbow flop. Maybe I'm biased because I've played with him s lot but curious what you think it is.

I don't know. I have never had the pleasure of balancing my ranges against OnTheRail15 (at least as far as I know. Bovada games are anonymous).

I just don't understand why we talk about how turn/river cards limit ranges in certain spots like (DeathDonkey's T9s cluster****), but in other spots it doesn't matter.

Because they are completely different scenarios.
If OTR somehow has 8-9s in his range here, then your point is valid. But he doesn't so the river Ace does virtually nothing to change his range.

DD has less Kx hands in his range when second King hits, OTR. Doesn't have less Ax hands in his range when second ace hits (by less I mean as a subset/percentage of his overall range).


It is stil important because it affects/limits other people's ranges

I don't always have an ace here.

So you can't have 66 or 77 here?

Do you cap those preflop?

Sometimes. For balance. Don't you?