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Old 12-04-2010, 01:38 PM   #1
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Another Gross Spot

30 online. I open CO with A Q, winning player 3bets OTB:

K 9 8 rainbow

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Old 12-04-2010, 03:03 PM   #2
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Re: Another Gross Spot

If you could play this exact spot perfectly you'd probably be the best LHE player in the world
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Old 12-04-2010, 03:32 PM   #3
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Re: Another Gross Spot

similar to the KJ hand you posted awhile ago with the A high flop right?

...I'm not near qualified to post any sort of in depth response but I believe in that situation you advocated for the peel as did others so in this case I can't see why c/c'ing would be less correct then c/c with KJ high in that other spot...

is it fair to say that these spots are so close that they are mostly read dependent?
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Old 12-04-2010, 04:05 PM   #4
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Re: Another Gross Spot

They are similar spots, but no correct play versus a good player is not really read dependent. It's a math/strategy problem.

For example, if you check/call and he fires 2 barrels, you will have very little additional info about his range. The third barrel is more interesting and reads might help there, because players will have some leaks in their strategy, eg, some players might always check back A hi worse than yours, some might always turn it into a bluff, some might always fire air on the 3rd barrel, some might give up, etc. But in general you won't be sure of any of these things, so you need to try to play unexploitably.
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Old 12-04-2010, 05:06 PM   #5
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Re: Another Gross Spot

PardoG, Those two spots are very different actually
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Old 12-04-2010, 05:38 PM   #6
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Re: Another Gross Spot

Is an A or Q on the turn a good card for us? I'm not so sure.

This line isn't mathematically informed, but it's the best I'm likely to do:

Check/call flop

Check/raise/call if turn is T, or J; b/c if turn is A or Q. If the turn is a brick, I'm torn between c/c and c/f, so maybe c/c if the turn card is a red brick and c/f if it is black. Evaluate on river.

Last edited by AlanBostick; 12-04-2010 at 05:40 PM. Reason: Damn, I wish MitchL were here to shoot me to pieces.
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Old 12-04-2010, 05:41 PM   #7
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Re: Another Gross Spot

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PardoG, Those two spots are very different actually
yeah, the ranges are different for sure, but they are similar in the sense that in both we have hands with enough equity that folding seem too weak, but we are in a situation where calling down blindly won't quite work either.
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Old 12-04-2010, 05:54 PM   #8
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Re: Another Gross Spot

C/r the turn the turn as a semi bluff on those cards is so bad IMO esp if he ever checks backs turns with any frequency...

Also a big diff between those two spots is that one we our oop the other we are in pos
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Old 12-04-2010, 06:06 PM   #9
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Re: Another Gross Spot

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C/r the turn the turn as a semi bluff on those cards is so bad IMO esp if he ever checks backs turns with any frequency...

Also a big diff between those two spots is that one we our oop the other we are in pos
yeah, and for that reason i think this spot is even worse
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Old 12-04-2010, 06:31 PM   #10
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Re: Another Gross Spot

Raise your hand if you check/fold the flop.
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Old 12-04-2010, 07:30 PM   #11
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Re: Another Gross Spot

Another related question, say you T9s or T8s here. Do you c/r the flop for value? how about with 55? what is your plan if raised on a blank turn?
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Old 12-04-2010, 08:33 PM   #12
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Re: Another Gross Spot

C/r/4/6 then c/r turn.

I'm going to post ridiculous lines until someone does it.
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Old 12-04-2010, 08:35 PM   #13
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Re: Another Gross Spot

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C/r/4/6 then c/r turn.

I'm going to post ridiculous lines until someone does it.
I think c/r turn allows weaker A hi hands to check back and misses value. obv spot for c/r/4/6 barrel. i just verified that this is indeed part of the nash equilibrium solution.
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Old 12-04-2010, 11:52 PM   #14
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Re: Another Gross Spot

I think handedness and site/liveness matter a ton for this one
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Old 12-05-2010, 12:03 AM   #15
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Re: Another Gross Spot

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I think handedness and site/liveness matter a ton for this one
why?

the situation is exactly the same no matter how many people were dealt into the hand originally, and i think the site this was played at is insignificant. i would be curious to hear your different answers for FT, Stars, Absolute. i've never noticed any big differences in the regs play on those sites, and in fact many have accounts at all 3. it being online is of course important, but i mentioned that in the op.
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