40/80 how badly did I butcher this? - Page 2 - Medium Stakes Poker Forum

postflop I would go with bet check bet, or check call raise/bet. The second line may be better because you are getting craised here a ton on the flop and you have zero fold equity, plus you can realize your equity better or bluff better after seeing the bigger streets

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08-24-2014 , 09:28 PM

#27

steveistheman84

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 1,438

i would be folding <a9o, so yeah, fold.

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08-24-2014 , 10:34 PM

#28

DosXX

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 3,034

v1 isn't even opening a5o

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08-25-2014 , 03:37 AM

#29

ActionDonky

centurion

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 119

I think pf decisions can be more difficult vs non standard villains who cold call in 5h game. A5o would be marginal 3bet at best vs the one opener wo cold caller, so u now need a hand that is much stronger and/or plays better multiway -- I.e. I think jts is a reasonable 3bet here. A5o just plays so awfully postflop vs. min 2 villains.

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08-25-2014 , 03:41 AM

#30

Mubsy Bogues

banned

Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 1,265

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodeo

are you coming from a no limit background? that would explain why you're having some difficulty understanding why pre flop is a losing play in the long run.

Ya. Been playing LHE as my main game for ~6 months. Still have a lot to learn!

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08-25-2014 , 03:43 AM

#31

Mubsy Bogues

banned

Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 1,265

Quote:

Originally Posted by DosXX

v1 isn't even opening a5o

he's opening worse. i didn't give a good enough description i guess. like i said he sees 80% of flops and isn't usually coming in first in for a limp short handed. though he is cold calling raises much more often than he 3-bets.

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08-25-2014 , 04:28 AM

#32

phunkphish

veteran

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 2,902

'Bad calling station' and 'opens 80%' are very different things. You definitely should have mentioned that he opens 80% -- that changes things completely.

Against an 80% open, with a 10%-50% cold call, A5o is ok. You also have position and a tight image that will deter the blinds.

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08-25-2014 , 05:08 AM

#33

rodeo

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 3,305

Quote:

Originally Posted by phunkphish

i disagree.

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08-25-2014 , 05:10 AM

#34

rodeo

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 3,305

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mubsy Bogues

Ya. Been playing LHE as my main game for ~6 months. Still have a lot to learn!

think about the reasons it might be ok to 3bet A5o in this spot in a NL game and then see if those reasons hold true for LHE.

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08-25-2014 , 05:34 AM

#35

Mubsy Bogues

banned

Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 1,265

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodeo

think about the reasons it might be ok to 3bet A5o in this spot in a NL game and then see if those reasons hold true for LHE.

Ya I see that now. In NL you'll either win the pot PF or play a HU pot most of the time, in LHE you're seeing a 3-way flop 100% of the time.

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08-25-2014 , 09:53 AM

#36

DosXX

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 3,034

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodeo

i disagree.

Obviously in my mind opening 80% =! bad calling station.

If he truly is opening 80% then a5o is an easy 3bet.

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08-25-2014 , 04:08 PM

#37

rodeo

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 3,305

Quote:

Originally Posted by DosXX

Obviously in my mind opening 80% =! bad calling station.

If he truly is opening 80% then a5o is an easy 3bet.

ok. you're right. if the guy is actually opening 80% of his hands, then A5o is a 3bet. my guess is that he's not actually opening 80%, but even if he is and the cc'er is calling 50% minus the top 10%, we're only at 35.6% equity.

Last edited by rodeo; 08-25-2014 at 04:09 PM. Reason: i just really wanted to disagree with phunkphish

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08-25-2014 , 04:56 PM

#38

phunkphish

veteran

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 2,902

Lol rodeo. I didn't know things were so personal with us.

I still think this hand could go either way. Our hand never dominates and is often dominated. Blinds may still come in and we don't do well multiway. Having position vs two mega fish only makes this a marginal 3b.

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08-25-2014 , 05:12 PM

#39

jdr0317

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 8,231

I'd like three betting way more if this was going to be a HU pot.

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08-25-2014 , 05:24 PM

#40

Puckster

adept

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 1,032

The site would be much improved if they added Like, Dislike, LOL, or several other options to select on posts....

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08-25-2014 , 07:27 PM

#41

rodeo

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 3,305

Quote:

Originally Posted by phunkphish

Lol rodeo. I didn't know things were so personal with us.

nothing personal. just trolling you

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08-27-2014 , 05:24 PM

#42

6MaxLHE

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 2,007

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdr0317

I'd like three betting way more if this was going to be a HU pot.

This. We don't have sufficient equity to be 3betting this hand pre in a multiway pot. Regardless if two bad players have entered the pot, my range for 3betting pre against a raise and a cold call would be 66+, ATo+. A5o just plays so poorly in this spot.

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09-01-2014 , 10:52 PM

#43

THE_BEAVER

grinder

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 510

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loopshot1

We're all aware this game is 5-handed yeah? PF not terribad w your image vs these opponents IMO.

When you are playing a 9 handed game and everyone folds to the hijack you are actually now playing a five handed game. There may be some very very very slight differences in certain contexts but not really worth considering.

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09-02-2014 , 02:49 AM

#44

Mubsy Bogues

banned

Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 1,265

Quote:

Originally Posted by THE_BEAVER

I can think of two differences. Card removal and the other four players might not view it that way, so they might not adjust as you're anticipating them to.

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09-02-2014 , 05:32 AM

#45

ChocolateMoo

adept

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 846

What do ppl do with A5s here?

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09-03-2014 , 01:21 AM

#46

DesertCat

I am a Regulator

Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 13,544

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mubsy Bogues

I can think of two differences. Card removal and the other four players might not view it that way, so they might not adjust as you're anticipating them to.

Not sure card removal makes any difference. First it's only 8 cards out of a 52 card deck, and it's not unreasonable to expect in a full game the first four players to act fold more than half their hands containing Aces, let alone Kings, Queens, Jacks, etc. So actual effect on remaining deck composition should be too small to affect any decisions.

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09-04-2014 , 05:22 PM

#47

DanS

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 1,246

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodeo

i'll help you out, mubsy. pre flop is bad. once we get that wrong, the rest of the hand is basically irrelevant because we would never be in this spot had we gotten pre flop right.

Are you f*cking serious?

We all make preflop mistakes sometimes, especially those of us playing 20/40-40/80 (even if we are competent). Otherwise we'd be playing bigger... scratch that, no one ever plays perfectly.

So, because this guy made a mediocre/somewhat bad 3! PF, we can't discuss the hand postflop. Clownery. C'mmoooonnnnn, man.

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09-05-2014 , 12:02 AM

#48

rodeo

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 3,305

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon_locke

post-flop is fine, but somewhat irrelevant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon_locke

Once again, what to do postflop doesn't really matter here

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mubsy Bogues

I appreciate your participation but it's very difficult to learn anything from your cryptic responses. If you ever feel like expanding on anything you've said at length, that would be fantastic.

dans, i'm not sure if you've read the entire thread or just my response. i was trying to explain to the OP what jon_locke was implying by his posts. it seems you may have misunderstood the sentiment in my post.

i didn't discuss postflop because others had explained my thoughts as well or better than i would have and i didn't feel like i had anything to add.

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09-06-2014 , 12:54 AM

#49

DanS

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 1,246

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodeo

Misperception on my part; my apologies.

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09-12-2014 , 03:30 AM

#50

stinkypete

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 15,783

I don't think there's any preflop ranges the two villains could conceivably have that would make 3-betting A5o on the button correct. Best case you have maybe 35% equity and your implied odds are garbage against anyone but the most predictable donkeys, even on the button.

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