30/60 OL 6-max

UTG opens, I 3bet BTN, sb cold-calls, BB folds, UTG calls.

Flop: AsTc5s

Check, check, I bet, both call.

Turn: Ac

Check, check, I check (?).

River: 4s

Check, UTG bets, I fold...

Q1: Fold pre?
Q2: Bet turn?
Q3: Call river?

My thoughts: UTG's hand looks like spades, weak ace, Tx, or QJ/KQ/KJ. (Or, maybe 55/TT if he plays that bad...) Hard to call with sb behind me...

What do you have? I'm way more worried about UTG than SB.

I thought 2p2ers were psychic. Pinging batman...

KJdd

Youre way at the bottom of your range behind only JQs if you 3b that vs UTG. No shame in folding.

Being at the bottom of your range also means you should strongly consider bluff-barreling turn / river. Free card turn/give up is prudent if villain's ranges are too strong or if they call too much.

Give up

say i have 99-88/JTs/KK-JJ. Do I check any of those?

Why don't you tell us what else you'd check there?

QJs/KQ

JQs is the bottom of your range. Absolutely must turn this into a bluff. To make your bluffing range less predictable, you should also have some (but not all) combos of KQ/KJ as bluffs. You should also barrel some 77/88/99 so that you have some bluffs if a broadway card hits river.

KK has some value as a triple barrel since most villains never flat twice with an ace. QQ/JJ/99 look like value prime bluff catchers -- they don't have enough strength to get 3 streets of value, and it makes more sense to target value on the river than the turn.

What range are you giving UTG ?

nh

Multiway with tight ranges. Your otherwise solid game theory ideas don't hold as firm under these conditions imo. I think he played it fine.

This is a give up online. You're basically targeting KQ once he check calls.

Heh. Forgot it was 3way when I made my last post.

If we don't barrel jqs we have no bluffs.

That might be ok. Depends how we think villains play 99- and gutshots -- do ppl really call 2 barrels with these in a 3 way pot, vs a 3b on AHi flop

just wondering why this isn't an obvious pf fold to everybody everywhere? maybe i'm missing something?

depends how utg play, i have no idea how tight/loose live games are.

FWIW I plugged my own range into Poker Cruncher and got a marginal three bet, and I'm one of the tighter guys in most OL 6-max games I play. Given some of the stuff I've been told about Bovada games, KJs is probably fine to three bet.

What is your plan if a blank hit turn and you are check/raised, do you fold? (I guess you will barrel again if river blanks out.)

I don't see much difference between KK and QQ even JJ in the situation. Can you elaborate further?

JJ loses to QQ and KK, KK beats JJ

Well it is 6max, not full ring .
Vs an unknow i fold but its pretty close .
I mean dont you 3bet KQs here ?
KJs is pretty close

Yes. If against a KK or QQ, usually more action either preflop or on flop. No?

I'd b/f JJ, b/c KK. QQ can go either way. JJ suffers most against hands like KQ and needs protection.

online bovada no reads I fold KJs pre v LJ open since he doesnt have a read on you either; however, I believe that in certain live games or online games where you and your opponent have some history vs each other I think 3! KQo and KJs on BTN is ok vs an LJ open. If the flop comes Kxx/Qxx/Jxx, and your opponent knows you dont have KQo or KJs, I believe it is way easier for him to put you on a range of hands and makes the hand way easier for him to get value from/get away from. If you triple barrels from the button on Axxxx boards you're opponent can make tighter folds on turn/river because he knows you would probably not bet for value as much on turn or river once he check calls unless you have an Ace.

I may not be explaining this that well but if you kind of take a few minutes to think about it I believe that including these two hands in your BTN/SB 3! range vs a LJ open it may not necessarily be more profitable long term for you the times you have those hands, but you will get more $ long term with your stronger hands.

Also if your opponent is on the LAGier side then a 3! from those spots with KJs or KQo could definitely be profitable.

probably not

Also if you don't include KJs and KQ in your 3! range and your opponent knows that then when you cbet 3/4 low cards on the flop/turn it makes it easy for your opponent to fold his suited Aces and A10- hands on turn. You put him in a tough spot with those hands when you include that in your range

I'm not sure I follow. Let's assume for a second that you're advocating -ev preflop 3 bets in order to put your opponent in a tough spot. I'd 3 bet KJs there, but that's not important. Your logic suggests that putting your opponent in tough spots is the important bit, and that we do so by improving his chance of winning the hand. This is backwards. Which spot is tougher for your opponent?:

Having the choice between making an 0ev fold or a -ev call.

Having the choice between making an 0ev fold or a slightly +ev call.

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I think the answer is clearly the former, while the latter allows your opponent to capture part of the pot by making +ev calls.

This is why I do not advocate making -ev plays preflop in order to make yourself tough to play against. By doing so, you're giving your opponent more profitable opportunities postflop. Any time your opponent can profitably call because of this, you lose ev and he or she gains ev.