30/60 live: Level above / level below - Page 2 - Medium Stakes Poker Forum

lawdude · 07-24-2012, 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prophet73

Maybe this belongs in the Oaks B&M thread, but also just had to say I think it's pretty amazing you were in a 5-handed Oaks 30 game where you think there were possibly 3 players better than you. I think there are only half a dozen good players TOTAL in that game's pool. Bad game selection...or bad player reads? lol

I can relate to callip's post in that regard. It's been awhile (I've been playing in rooms with more than one table going at my limit lately), but I can certainly remember playing in shorthanded games against better players to keep games going, because if they fill back up they can attract some fish.

The people who immediately break games the moment that they go short are some of the most shortsighted people in the cardroom. It's much harder to restart a game than it is to attract players to a game that is going.

lawdude · 07-24-2012, 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prophet73

After you 4 bet the flop, I personally think it would be a fairly standard call down with AA/KK, but I believe those hands are definitely in his turn c/r range...IF this is who I think it is.

I'll defer to your read if you know the player, but I've made a lot of additional BB's over the years from players who just assume that you'd never fastplay a set and must have a hand like KQ or 98 on a board like this if you put in a lot of action on the flop. They raise a blank turn card with AA or KK even after the 4-bet. That's why I say it's a good exploitative play against typical LAG's.

prophet73 · 07-24-2012, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawdude

I'll defer to your read if you know the player, but I've made a lot of additional BB's over the years from players who just assume that you'd never fastplay a set and must have a hand like KQ or 98 on a board like this if you put in a lot of action on the flop. They raise a blank turn card with AA or KK even after the 4-bet. That's why I say it's a good exploitative play against typical LAG's.

I'm only saying it in player-dependent terms. I would take your line versus some, but not versus OP.

Captain R · 07-24-2012, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prophet73

Maybe this belongs in the Oaks B&M thread, but also just had to say I think it's pretty amazing you were in a 5-handed Oaks 30 game where you think there were possibly 3 players better than you. I think there are only half a dozen good players TOTAL in that game's pool. Bad game selection...or bad player reads? lol

Probably modesty.

callipygian · 07-24-2012, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by obi_wang

I also would not 4b pf with the top of ur range. Vs some villains, its fine to go a zillion bets pf or otf cuz they prefer to spew there, but against most reasonable opponents, u should be calling the 3b with 100% of your range imo.

Even in position?

Just realized positions were not super clear. I am HJ/UTG, he is SB. I should have both r/c and r/4 ranges preflop, shouldn't I?

callipygian · 07-24-2012, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain R

Probably modesty.

This, but not false modesty. I'm not really doing it "for the good of the game" or because I think I'm l33t. I recognize that my edge is small/nonexistent but I genuinely enjoy playing with good players.

prophet73 · 07-24-2012, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by callipygian

Even in position?

Just realized positions were not super clear. I am HJ/UTG, he is SB. I should have both r/c and r/4 ranges preflop, shouldn't I?

Against the reasonable opponents that Obiwang is probably referring to, I'd prefer to have my top hands in my 3-bet calling range otherwise there's the risk of playing my hand face up. And even if you try to balance a 4-bet range with some other lesser hands, a reasonable opponent would typically have stronger 3-betting hands than some random donk and you're going to have a harder time defining their hand postflop with lesser holdings and create tougher RIO situations for yourself.

Now if it was multi-way, I would 4-bet all day with the top of my range.

Tony Mannoni · 07-24-2012, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by callipygian

Villain is a 2+2 lurker who should post. Strong LAGTAG.

5-handed with me quite possibly the 4th best player.

Preflop: Herp raises TT, 2 folds, Villain 3b, BB folds, Hero calls.

I just noticed the typo but find it strangely appropriate.

Flop: JT5r
Villain b/3b/c.

Turn: 4 (fd)
Villain c/r, Hero calls down.

I find it hard to believe that Villain doesn't put me on a set or JT on the flop. I didn't 4b preflop, which kind of rules out an overpair. So if he's c/r this turn, he's got JJ, right?

So,

1. Is this a spot where I should either r/c or c the flop to keep my range wide?

2. Am I just leveling myself when I'm pretty sure he's pretty sure I have 2pair+?

3. Folding turn is laughably bad, right? Even if my hand reading analysis is right?

1. Get in as many bets as you can on this flop
2. Yes, 5 handed you have to believe you have the nuts
3. Never folding here......EVER

gaming_mouse · 07-24-2012, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony Mannoni

3. Never folding here......EVER

what if someone paid you a million dollars to fold?

AlanBostick · 07-25-2012, 12:53 PM

Put me in the call-the-flop-donk-and-raise/call-turn camp. Don't fold.

COCOCHANEL · 07-30-2012, 08:06 PM

Agree that 4 betting flop is atypical line with set, so your hand is disguised, I guess. But you want to get two bets in on each of the big streets. I might even c/r turn and then c/r river and hope to be 3 bet so I can cap, if villain will oblige me...

DO NOT FOLD

OnTheRail15 · 07-30-2012, 08:14 PM

I would probably not raise the flop unless I had a real good reason to. If you can't threebet the turn, I think calling flop and raise/4betting the turn is best.