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03-10-2016 , 04:16 PM

NedSchneebly

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 310

LJ opens, I 3! AJ BTN, LJ calls (Heads Up)

Flop T62r, x,b,c

Turn Kr, x,x

River 3 Villain bets. Call or fold?

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03-10-2016 , 09:17 PM

BigBadBabar

California Elephant

Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 21,554

what are your pot odds, what do you think his range is, and how are you doing against it?

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03-10-2016 , 09:41 PM

maka2184

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,537

Quote:

Originally Posted by NedSchneebly

LJ opens, I 3! AJ BTN, LJ calls (Heads Up)

Flop T62r, x,b,c

Turn Kr, x,x

River 3 Villain bets. Call or fold?

Haven't played at Bovada for awhile but I'd call if you just sat down and have no reads.

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03-10-2016 , 10:55 PM

MacauBound

old hand

Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 1,786

I think pre is close but still ok if unsuited.

Why not just turn cbet, planning to xb many rivers? It's a fine card for your range (though fine for his too) and you can just b/c turn with decent FE and then evaluate different rivers.

When you do x turn, villain should realize you have a hand that can showdown and shouldn't overbluff the river. First thoughts are to snap call, but more I think about it we only beat A9, maybe 89s, and the most likely holding QJ (which we block).

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03-10-2016 , 11:20 PM

Jules22

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 4,156

I would 100% bet the turn and fold to any aggression after that with no reads

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03-11-2016 , 12:10 AM

Montrealcorp

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 13,376

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jules22

I would 100% bet the turn and fold to any aggression after that with no reads

Why ?

This is a 3bet pot pf, so its size is decent with the dead money from the blinds.

So why bet the turn and folding to a c/r (?) or fold to a donk bet on the river when you can simply check turn and make sure you realize your equity on the river by calling 1 BB ?

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03-11-2016 , 02:24 AM

jdr0317

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 8,231

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacauBound

I really don't see betting turn accomplishing much. What worse hands are calling? What better hands are folding? This bet is fine against some generic live, straightforward midstakes dude, but it can lead to problems at an OL 30. I'd much rather throw in stronger checks versus betting my entire range OTT.

3 betting pre should be fine versus most people; may muck it against a supernit who never has dominated hands here (AT, A9s, KJ), but most opponents I play (winners and losers) are opening UTG at 6 max with a range that's behind AJ.

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03-11-2016 , 04:30 AM

steveistheman84

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 1,438

fold

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03-11-2016 , 05:32 AM

phunkphish

veteran

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 2,902

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacauBound

Why would throw out that QJ is villain's likeliest holding? I see no evidence of this

If you think pre is close to a fold (its not) then river should be a snap fold being the bottom of your range.

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03-11-2016 , 05:43 AM

#10

chillrob

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 20,981

Pretty sure he meant that QJ is the likeliest holding of villain of the ones hero beats on the turn (I would agree).

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03-11-2016 , 06:09 AM

#11

stinkypete

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 15,783

super standard hand.

call the river by default. people are far more likely to bluff too much than check worse hands too much in his spot. if he hates bluffing i guess you can fold.

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03-11-2016 , 11:16 AM

#12

pgcounty

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 3,183

I think knowing if it's 6 handed or full ring is important. I'm guessing it's FR being that you are mentioning the Lojack.

Any read on villain?

You are getting a little better than 3-1 on the river.

LJ's preflop and flop range is going to be pretty wide.

Villain is going to be more inclined to bluff after the turn checks through.

As the other poster said, this is super standard, a call, shrug either way and move to the next hand.

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03-11-2016 , 11:51 AM

#13

NedSchneebly

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 310

I know it seems super standard but literally the only hands we are beating are worse suited Aces and QJ. Maybe a K9s/Q9s.

Pot is ~330 and its 60 more for us to call. I would bet we do not win this hands 1/6.5 times versus an average unknown and the best reason for calling here is to prevent being exploitable; however, it doesn't really matter what others think of you in an anonymous bovada session compared to live or online with screen names/hand histories.

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03-11-2016 , 01:13 PM

#14

phunkphish

veteran

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 2,902

BTN-2 range should have 78/79/89s; 9Q/9Js; QJo; If he's frisky he could be turning A-rag-s into a bluff. Being anonymous/readless means that you should play closer to 'unexploitable' since you have no reads to guide you to lines to exploit others.

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03-11-2016 , 01:23 PM

#15

NedSchneebly

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 310

It's BTN +3. Also I don't think 89s/78s should be peeling this flop

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03-11-2016 , 03:07 PM

#16

maka2184

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,537

Even without game selecting, Limit games on Bovada were almost always amazing and 30/60 had some real loose aggressive or loose players in general.

This was about a year ago but unless games have changed a lot on Bovada, I would call river as Default in the Bovada 30/60 games.

This isn't Live poker where you can assign narrow ranges just because they are in the LoJack (LJ/BTN+3).

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03-11-2016 , 03:36 PM

#17

phunkphish

veteran

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 2,902

Quote:

Originally Posted by NedSchneebly

It's BTN +3. Also I don't think 89s/78s should be peeling this flop

Quote

03-11-2016 , 06:49 PM

#18

balrog

newbie

Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 29

Quote:

Originally Posted by NedSchneebly

It's BTN +3. Also I don't think 89s/78s should be peeling this flop

So you are suggesting the villain should be folding an inside straight draw OTF for like 8:1? You do realize this is the fixed limit forum?

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03-11-2016 , 10:00 PM

#19

Montrealcorp

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 13,376

nvm

yeah folding flop makes no sense with 78-98

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03-12-2016 , 12:39 AM

#20

steveistheman84

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 1,438

yeah, i def like calling now. ran my defaults on equilab and we're at 23% (assuming villain is betting 100% of range). plus, i'd expect bovada to lean towards looser players + inviting all 87s, 98s, q9s, qjo to bluff river when they brick. that combined with some of hands that are beating you are going to check river make your equity a lot better than 23%

Last edited by steveistheman84; 03-12-2016 at 12:47 AM.

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03-12-2016 , 01:17 AM

#21

NedSchneebly

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 310

Sorry flop must've been 1052 which changes a lot IMO

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03-14-2016 , 01:05 AM

#22

6MaxLHE

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 2,007

Call and get value owned by AQ.

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03-14-2016 , 01:14 PM

#23

phunkphish

veteran

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 2,902

Quote:

Originally Posted by NedSchneebly

Sorry flop must've been 1052 which changes a lot IMO

No not really. any SC with BDFD should still be floating.

Based on this and the other thread I suspect you are giving up on too many flops where you don't hit a piece. In a 2 bet pot with 4.5 small bets, you don't want to be consistently folding 20%+ of your range to cbets. In this 3 bet pot with 7.5 small bets, don't be consistently folding 1/8 of your range to cbets.

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03-16-2016 , 01:21 PM

#24

NedSchneebly

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 310

Yea the added 20% chance of winning the pot from the straight alone doesn't really add any difference to the hand. Again if you peel 89 on a 1052 flop you are probably one of the biggest losers at the table

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03-16-2016 , 01:21 PM

#25

NedSchneebly

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 310

As played I think calling river is best play

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