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Old 08-07-2012, 08:27 AM   #16
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Re: 20: kills and overs hu

Why are we 3beting pre OOP with Q10 off?
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Old 08-07-2012, 08:40 AM   #17
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Re: 20: kills and overs hu

What is the worst hand you would 3 bet preflop? As played, how do you do anything other than check call the river?
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Old 08-07-2012, 09:07 AM   #18
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Re: 20: kills and overs hu

My range in this exact spot is pretty wide. Villain will literally open raise here 100% of the time. So definitely any two cards >T all pp's > 55, 78s+. J7s+ etc.

I'm honestly not sure what else I can do besides c/c river. Improved I can bet call I guess
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Old 08-07-2012, 01:04 PM   #19
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Re: 20: kills and overs hu

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Originally Posted by SnowTires88 View Post
My range in this exact spot is pretty wide. Villain will literally open raise here 100% of the time. So definitely any two cards >T all pp's > 55, 78s+. J7s+ etc.

I'm honestly not sure what else I can do besides c/c river. Improved I can bet call I guess
Once small blind folds, it would be best to just call preflop with 100% of your range that you plan on continuing with. With it being guaranteed overs post flop, this makes it even more beneficial to you to just call in this spot. For the most part, most good players these days are not 3-betting anything out of the big blind against a button open, once the small blind folds, unless the button is a raving lunatic and will 4-bet you with 65s or some nonsense like that.
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Old 08-07-2012, 01:59 PM   #20
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Re: 20: kills and overs hu

I think its fine to 3bet from the BB against a button raise as long as you're balanced. Doing it with Q10 off certainly does make you balanced, so in a vacuum I think its bad, but overall I think its ok. (I see some people who's 3bet in that spot is basically the top 5 or 6 hands in their range which is obv terrible.)

I have adopted the never 3bet OOP HU strategy myself, but I don't think that's the ONLY way to play it. However, something to think about...if you're 3betting this light, what does your flat call range look like?

As played, I think its pretty poor tbh. Either 3bet the flop or chk raise the turn...just calling the flop bet and leading the turn makes no sense to me. I would have 3bet the flop and lead the turn, and if I get raised on either big street UI I'm going into chk/call/showdown mode.
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Old 08-07-2012, 05:03 PM   #21
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Re: 20: kills and overs hu

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Why did you just call the flop raise and donk the turn? Either 3-bet the flop or check/raise the turn, and I prefer 3-betting the flop.

I also would just call preflop.
agreed totally! calling river as out posted hand played out, fold for 80 in a 1210 pot heads up...I think not IMO
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Old 08-07-2012, 06:11 PM   #22
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agreed totally! calling river as out posted hand played out, fold for 80 in a 1210 pot heads up...I think not IMO
160 into a 1210 pot. Posted bets since not exactly typical situation to be in.
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Old 08-07-2012, 06:28 PM   #23
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.
I have adopted the never 3bet OOP HU strategy myself, but I don't think that's the ONLY way to play it. However, something to think about...if you're 3betting this light, what does your flat call range look like?
This is the type of response I was most looking for. The answer is I've never really considered nor liked a flatting range here because I feel like my hand is fit or fold in those spots. Which I guess it is since I've never really made a range for that. Over the posts I've made and read the consensus on the forum seems to be to definitely not 3bet from the bb vs btn. I can at least grasp and appreciate that since I've adopted a non cap range pf 3< and it really makes life easier

The reason I didn't c/r turn was rather silly but the thought process was 1) I did not want to get free carded and 2) I didn't want to value own myself with tp and face a 3bet
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Old 08-07-2012, 06:30 PM   #24
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Re: 20: kills and overs hu

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Originally Posted by SnowTires88 View Post
160 into a 1210 pot. Posted bets since not exactly typical situation to be in.
what is the typical situation in this case? even if its 160 im still not folding thats why I put IMO, you get to denfensive in your posts
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Old 08-08-2012, 12:31 AM   #25
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Re: 20: kills and overs hu

Overs with a kill is most profitable variation of LHE if you not a gambling type and game select well.
I think 3b prflop is fine but i also hate popular strategy of not 3b anything out BB against the button, so my 3b range here is pretty wide.
3b the flop and keep firing until he pops the turn. C\C the river unimproved. Looks pretty standard.
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Old 08-08-2012, 02:59 AM   #26
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Re: 20: kills and overs hu

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Originally Posted by SnowTires88 View Post
2nd game is far juicer then main. 6 handed 4 of us have overs. Villain is "math" player from "butchered" thread. He's recently been put on raging monkey tilt cause he lost a few big pots and seems to be raising ATC. It's his kill. We both have overs

Folds to villain OTB on his kill raises to 80
Folds to hero in Bb with Qs10d 3! To 120
Villain calls

Pot:250
Flop: 10h2h5c
Hero bets 80
Villain raises to 160
Hero calls

Pot:570
Turn:7c
Hero bets 160
villain raises to 320
Hero calls

Pot:1210

What is our river plan?

My honest thought process at the time was there are a million draws to be completed otr so plan was x/c all rivers and with how incredibly light villain had been raising lately I'm not sure how I can consider folding tp on any river.
I would either 3bet the flop and lead turn or call the flop raise and C/R the turn.

As for the river I'm never folding.
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Old 08-08-2012, 10:07 AM   #27
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what is the typical situation in this case? even if its 160 im still not folding thats why I put IMO, you get to denfensive in your posts
Yes probably do. 80/160 correction is just be being nit picky Idk. It makes a bit of a difference from 15:1 vs actually getting like 7.5:1

Still never folding.

If villain is checking behind on brick rivers should we just b/c all bricks and x/c all made draws?
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Old 08-08-2012, 10:44 AM   #28
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Re: 20: kills and overs hu

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Originally Posted by SnowTires88 View Post
Yes probably do. 80/160 correction is just be being nit picky Idk. It makes a bit of a difference from 15:1 vs actually getting like 7.5:1

Still never folding.

If villain is checking behind on brick rivers should we just b/c all bricks and x/c all made draws?
-I think at best he has ace high, maybe a fulsh draw, 99 might be played similar
-Me personaly... b/c-ing the river not matter what comes you have top pair and he is on "raging mokey tilt", unless your checking to maybe get a check behind to see his hand and get some info, I think a check hes going to bet no matter what, he has too.
-He was def. trying to bully you I think
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Old 08-08-2012, 11:08 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by i4c14u View Post
-I think at best he has ace high, maybe a fulsh draw, 99 might be played similar
-Me personaly... b/c-ing the river not matter what comes you have top pair and he is on "raging mokey tilt", unless your checking to maybe get a check behind to see his hand and get some info, I think a check hes going to bet no matter what, he has too.
-He was def. trying to bully you I think
Checking behind oop here sorta sucks. If there isn't any betting otr then you open up in in order of first to act. I never got to see villains hand but he said something along the lines if oh you have tp... yeah that's why you didn't fold. I turned a FD figured the ace might have helped you. So yes villain was just trying bully as I knew he would try to do. He's pretty decent when he isn't tilted but I think he is one of the biggest fish when he does tilt. Gets wayyyyy to agro
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