Live $20

This post i would like to hear comments bout villains play and ours.

BB is 19 Heinekens deep and is a gambler that likes to see flops.

We are 1/2 off the button with 3h4h pretty Tag maybe played 3 -4 hands since villain sat down 4 orbits ago.

Villain seems solid but I've seen him fold spots (correctly and incorrectly) where most winning LHE players call.


Folds to us we open 3h4h villain 3! BB calls we call
Flop 2s4s6d X/X/B/2!/C/C

Turn 6c x/B/F/C

River 8h X/X

BB we show 4s FTW

Villain is mad and says he folded 88 and says something about giving me too much respect.

I've been thinking about both sides of this hand I'm not sure if my thoughts are correct. My game says 88 is a 3! On that flop as its a wet board and a lot of everones range is drawing. But I'm not sure its correct or not. I like the X/R on the flop for the same reason and I don't like peeling/folding and I don't like giving a free card to 4 overs on the turn. Obv. PP beats us but we have 10 outs to improve on the flop so shoveling bets in isn't the worst play.

I'd fold the 43 suited. It's trash.

As played, I can't really figure out the action the way you typed it, but if you are saying that you were the flop raiser after a donk, it seems to me to be read-dependent. If you think you can fold out overs (or gasp, an overpair), it could be a correct play, especially since it's really hard for you to have 43 here.

As for the guy who folded 88 on the flop, if he's telling the truth, he's awful.

I think if you chance your post and give yourself 33 you will get better responses. Becusse answering what to do with 3-4 is relatively pointless.

Assuming this is a full $20 game at Canterbury.
I wouldn't recommend ever opening in CO with worse than my list below. Even with the low end hands on my list the +/-EV is so small that you're probably be better off playing even tighter, but hope this helps some.

100% with 9Tss+, 44+, A9o+, A5ss+
30-40% with 78ss+,79ss+(1 & 2 gappers),22+
Everything else, fold 100%

GL

preflop is bad.

postflop, based on your post, i can't follow the action. are you saying on the flop you check/coldcalled (after btn cbet and bb checkraise) and then on the turn you donked?

Yea I screwed up the action. It was checked to the button he be t the bb called I raised and everyone called.

Bb checks turn I bet , button folds and bb calls.

In response about opening ranges that's irrelevant as it was more of a steal in late position playing a tight image. That image obviously played well as the button claims he folded an overpair and I know BB range is nosebleed. I'm more curious as to once we got to the flop how would people play it and if anyone is ever folding 88 on the turn.

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How are responses about opening ranges irrelevant, when it's clearly the only thing worth talking about, and clearly terrible.

It's irrelevant because the discussion I wanted to talk about us flop/turn play. and from the villain s Point of view and how he played 88

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Not taking sides, but damn, we've had this argument a thousand times. JL will say flop/turn is irrelevant because he is literally never in that spot.

Lets say 43s is on the edge without reads, doesn't our read on BB make this more of a fold pre?

I'll play the game though. I think the rest is fine and lol at someone folding 88. People like to lie about this for some reason. Maybe so you'll think their range is stronger in the future.

Why would you not want to focus on the massive preflop leak? Fixing thst seems more important than focusing on villains obvious poor post flop decision.

Because that's not the part I care about. I look at it as more of a blind steal where I'd be opening any 2 with two tight players and a horrible BB when I know most of the time I can win with no showdown.

That being said the situation changed when the button woke up with a hand. And now I'm curious about the post flop play

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Fold pre.

Nobody ever wants to talk about preflop. Somehow it's the easiest street but the one that everybody screws up the most on this forum. Then nobody ever seems
To care, I come in here and post same crap Everytime. 1/2 the forum thinks im mean and should concentrate on how to play the situation now that were jn this spot and most people go back to playing relatively terrible poker.

Opening any 2 from the cutoff is just plain stupid. Recognizing this will make you more money than how to play this hand postflop.

Maybe if your posts had some value in relation to what the poster asks they won't think your mean. If I posted "should I play 34 one off the button?" Then your response will be welcomed and maybe even praised but a post like "fold pre" is not informative nor is it helpful. Probably part of why these forums have died. It's hard to have a decent discussion about ranges, equity and situational play without a dozen posts that state "fold pre"

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Well OP, the good thing is you are playing with people that make even bigger mistakes than you. lol @ villian folding 88 here.

Change the hand to 45s, and preflop is close. 34s is bad.

Kenny, play preflop perfect and postflop slightly below avg and you will still win the chips. Play preflop below avg and postflop perfect and will still lose all the chips.

Who cares what the poster asks when they are asking stupid/wrong questions.

The fact that you think fold pre is neither informative not helpful when it's actually the most valuable advise you can get means you probably don't understand limit holdem. That's fine and why your hear to learn, so here is helpful advise, fold 4 high preflop when in the cutoff or hijack.

In addition to what Jon Locke says, this is limit hold 'em. The post-flop bets are not large enough to make up for pre-flop errors. If you make a -EV play pre-flop, you are never getting that money back even if you are a master post-flop.

It really is important not to raise 4 high from the CO. You need to talk about it, even if you don't want to, OP.

I tried to answer OP's post-flop question, but he didn't post the hand very well.

Sometimes someone plays an earlier street wrong, and asks about a later street, so you point it out and then it can still be useful to discuss what to do on the later street, even though he should never be there. Cause hey, we all make mistakes, get into wierd unfamiliar situations, and it's good to learn how to think in those kinds of situations.

This is not one of those times.

Ok useful advice: get a starting hand chart, follow it.

I dont believe the opponent had 88. He probably had AK. That being said I kinda like a bet on the flop. A lot of opponents will freeze when you do this and you can get a pretty good read on whether they have overpair or not. Also, he might raise with either over cards or a pocket pair and freeze out BB, who my have 2 live overs, increasing your equity.

stop drinking while you play poker or text me whenever you are.

Grasshopper: Sensei, please tell me what techniques a black belt would have used to defeat the villains I described?

Sensei: Why discuss the techniques of black belts when you have yet to pass your yellow belt test?

Grasshopper: I know the yellow belt stuff well, and it's boring. I want to talk about black belt stuff.

Sensei: But you fail your yellow belt test every try, so you clearly do not understand it. Once you have proven you have mastered yellow belt techniques, and then after you also pass the Orange, Blue, Green, Purple, and Brown belt tests, I promise to train you as a black belt.

Grasshopper: Look, Sensei, I told you, I'm bored of that Yellow belt crap. Give me your black belt knowledge now, as your stubbornness is ruining this dojo for me and all others like me who thirst for the knowledge you have earned

Sensei: My dear student. Teaching you how to defeat these Villains with black belt techniques cannot be done. First, you don't even care enough to get the action right, so Sensei literally has no idea what occurred in your combat. Then there is no way to discuss black belt techniques with a white belt who repeatedly insists that opening 34s from CO/HJ is a "blind steal" playing off a "tight image" the BB is too drunk to notice, instead of the total spewage it actually is.

My dear Grasswiper, I do not drag my tired old butt to this Dojo every day to give away my hard earned knowledge for free to the laziest, rudest and most ungrateful students. If this Dojo is going downhill it's because of you and other students like you. If you want a better Dojo, prove yourself worthy of it by treating answers you are given respectfully, and thoughtfully. Start doing and contributing your own work and equity calcs to threads and stop demanding others do them for you.

Otherwise you can only improve our Dojo by leaving it to return to the NL Dojo of unrelentingly cluelessly overconfident and ungrateful jerks