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10/20LHE vs 1/2NL 10/20LHE vs 1/2NL

03-01-2016 , 01:20 PM
He didnt say it wasnt enough for 10/20, he said it wasnt enough gor 20/40 & 40/80.

With the larger aggression factor and bigger bet sizes relative to your bankroll you have a higher risk of ruin, and 13k is not enough cusion if it is your life role... for taking shots if you make money elswhere it is fine....
10/20LHE vs 1/2NL Quote
03-01-2016 , 01:25 PM
10/20 is not super passive. Tough to compare between the two games, but I would consider 1/2 NL more passive than 10/20 limit. And the NL games in AC are not filled with "retired nits". That would be closer to describing the 10/20 games.
10/20LHE vs 1/2NL Quote
03-01-2016 , 04:15 PM
Your choice should depend on what the ladder looks like where you play (assuming you beat both). If there is 10-20, 20-40, 40-80 and 80-160+ and highest NL is 5-10 you play 10-20 as your winrste is actually higher if you develop skill set to beat bigger games


if 10-20 is highest limit game but NL is 12, 3-5 and 5-10 then you play 1-2
10/20LHE vs 1/2NL Quote
03-01-2016 , 04:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon_locke
Your choice should depend on what the ladder looks like where you play (assuming you beat both). If there is 10-20, 20-40, 40-80 and 80-160+ and highest NL is 5-10 you play 10-20 as your winrste is actually higher if you develop skill set to beat bigger games


if 10-20 is highest limit game but NL is 12, 3-5 and 5-10 then you play 1-2
+1

ETA not sure why there's even the short term discussion about 1/2 NL vs 10/20 LHE. Choose the game that has the best long term prospects. 13k is way overrolled for either. You're only playing this low long enough to get the hurt out of your butt anyway.
10/20LHE vs 1/2NL Quote
03-01-2016 , 04:21 PM
Wouldn't an expert 5/10 NL player likely have a higher winrate than an expert 80-160 LHE one? Or at least a comparable win?
10/20LHE vs 1/2NL Quote
03-01-2016 , 04:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chillrob
Wouldn't an expert 5/10 NL player likely have a higher winrate than an expert 80-160 LHE one? Or at least a comparable win?
Circumstantially, 80/160 LHE players will play 10/25 NL sometimes and vice versa.
10/20LHE vs 1/2NL Quote
03-03-2016 , 03:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by midrange
10/20 is usually too nitty. I'd just keep grinding 2/5nl tbh. 13k is plenty fine. If your limit game was better I'd suggest 20/40, but you'd probably get chewed up with limited experience.
I think the 20/40 at the Borg is quite soft at times, especially Thursday to Sunday. You would have to be a complete limit noob/fish to get 'chewed up' at the 20/40 game. Variance is a separate issue of course, but not being outplayed. The 40/80 and 80/160 are a different story, hence why the 20/40 is so soft imo.

I have played the 20/40 game a few times while waiting on a 40 or 80 game seat and I was baffled at some of the play I saw there. I would say half of the people at the table were fairly brain dead and most of the others were just loose passive with the occasional LAG guy with no real plan. Keep in mind, the conditions need to be right, like having 2 games or more of 40 going and a game of 80 going. I find that most of the good limit players are playing those games on the weekends. I am only down there a weekend or two every few months, so my experiences could be more isolated incidents.

If you get your roll up to 15K to 20K, I would consider playing in the 20/40 game occasionally under these conditions.
10/20LHE vs 1/2NL Quote
03-04-2016 , 06:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace upmy Slv
I think the 20/40 at the Borg is quite soft at times, especially Thursday to Sunday. You would have to be a complete limit noob/fish to get 'chewed up' at the 20/40 game. Variance is a separate issue of course, but not being outplayed. The 40/80 and 80/160 are a different story, hence why the 20/40 is so soft imo.

I have played the 20/40 game a few times while waiting on a 40 or 80 game seat and I was baffled at some of the play I saw there. I would say half of the people at the table were fairly brain dead and most of the others were just loose passive with the occasional LAG guy with no real plan. Keep in mind, the conditions need to be right, like having 2 games or more of 40 going and a game of 80 going. I find that most of the good limit players are playing those games on the weekends. I am only down there a weekend or two every few months, so my experiences could be more isolated incidents.

If you get your roll up to 15K to 20K, I would consider playing in the 20/40 game occasionally under these conditions.
20k is plenty to play 20/40 regularly as long as you aren't paying rent, food etc out of it. Under most circumstances I would just play 20 with a 13k roll and try to run it up rather than play lower.
10/20LHE vs 1/2NL Quote
03-05-2016 , 09:57 AM
I'd recommend playing 1/2 NL.

I've never played at Borgata but 1/2 NL is a joke and a half.

If max Buyin is at least like $300 - $500, you can make at least $50/hour if you play well preflop, postflop, and don't drink while you play.

Literally taught a friend how to beat NL 5 months ago. He couldn't beat 20/40 game they had in a casino near his house but taught him how to play NL and he went from making $20/hour playing poker to making $70/hour in two month playing 1/2 NL.

Player pool at his casino are quite special bad though.

My other friend did a math on the standard deviation/variance of 20/40 NL and 1/2 NL and it was obscure how little variance there is at 1/2 NL because you can either create fold equity based on your style of poker, or can just play ABC TAG and get in so many 70/30 spots and players never fold. That was the case at least for my friend although he plays quite well now and has pristine reads on players.
10/20LHE vs 1/2NL Quote
03-05-2016 , 12:22 PM
If it's that easy to make $200k a year with little to no variance, why don't more people do it? That seems like a very good living
10/20LHE vs 1/2NL Quote
03-05-2016 , 12:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon_locke
If it's that easy to make $200k a year with little to no variance, why don't more people do it? That seems like a very good living
Most people don't have a high enough IQ as my friend who also owns 2 companies with 90%+ ROI that he just outsources everything except for things he needs to do so he has no fixed costs that he needs to pay to employees.

The discretionary income he earns from his companies doesn't require him to work more than 20 hours a week on his own schedule so he plays poker for fun/additional discretionary income. He does however, play Live Poker about 40 hours a week and has done so for the last 3 years and NL poker for about the last 10 months.

Playing poker for a living is a grind and most people can't really do that for longer than a couple years.

To answer your question, more people don't do that because they can't handle the variance they put themself through by playing bad (not adjusting gears, etc), not game selecting, and/or just being too confident and/or being too timid.

Biggest factor that I would say is the reason most people don't do that is because they have psychological issues when they play poker for an extended period of time and they start to play like a robot, play long hours, or play too short of hours in order to make a living.

On another note, having phenomenal bankroll management is one of the most important skills in Poker once you get to the level where you can at least exploit the fish in my biased opinion having played Online Poker professionally as a prop player and having played Live Poker professionally part time while I was going to school after Black Friday. Having a low bankroll really gets to your head psychologically and I would not recommend playing 20/40 if OP's main game has been NL and has not played LHE in awhile.

My small group of about 3 players including myself play LHE decently (not as well as ZOMG, NinaWilliams, OnTheRail, or DeathDonkey) and all 3 of us are winning players but even my best friend who wins about 2BB/100 in the soft Live games we play have a relatively high standard deviation/variance. This is over a small sample size of about 3 years playing couple times a week but my friend finished calculus 4 (discrete math) when he was in 8th grade and can calculate Variance mathematically even with a small sample to make it normally distributed utilizing a mathematical model that he made with an IBM software that he had access to through work/school.

Last edited by maka2184; 03-05-2016 at 01:10 PM.
10/20LHE vs 1/2NL Quote
03-05-2016 , 01:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace upmy Slv
I think the 20/40 at the Borg is quite soft at times, especially Thursday to Sunday. You would have to be a complete limit noob/fish to get 'chewed up' at the 20/40 game. Variance is a separate issue of course, but not being outplayed. The 40/80 and 80/160 are a different story, hence why the 20/40 is so soft imo.

I have played the 20/40 game a few times while waiting on a 40 or 80 game seat and I was baffled at some of the play I saw there. I would say half of the people at the table were fairly brain dead and most of the others were just loose passive with the occasional LAG guy with no real plan. Keep in mind, the conditions need to be right, like having 2 games or more of 40 going and a game of 80 going. I find that most of the good limit players are playing those games on the weekends. I am only down there a weekend or two every few months, so my experiences could be more isolated incidents.

If you get your roll up to 15K to 20K, I would consider playing in the 20/40 game occasionally under these conditions.
Agreed; I recall one "pro" attempting to grind 20/40 at borgata. And he wasn't very good. Besides that, I've seen some serious crap (my friend said I gave a massive "Ivey face" after getting nitrolled by a KQ that check-called down in a BB v BTN battle on a KJx-y-K board), and screw playing 5 opponents on the turn with TPWK and getting called in 4 spots by worse. It's a fun game.
10/20LHE vs 1/2NL Quote
03-05-2016 , 03:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon_locke
Sometimes it's hard to tell when I'm being serious or sarcastic.
+1

I don't doubt your friend is very smart or that he wins at poker. He doesn't win $70 hour playing 1-2 or probably anywhere close to that.

FWIW, my win are over last 5 years playing 2-3 spread is around $900/hour (true statement, not sarcasm)
10/20LHE vs 1/2NL Quote
03-05-2016 , 04:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon_locke
+1

I don't doubt your friend is very smart or that he wins at poker. He doesn't win $70 hour playing 1-2 or probably anywhere close to that.

FWIW, my win are over last 5 years playing 2-3 spread is around $900/hour (true statement, not sarcasm)
I have the Excel Log which I obviously will not be sharing due to my desire to protect his privacy and my selfish desire not to reveal the soft NL game casino's location.

He only played for 6 months before moving to a different state but he played from 8am - 6pm 6 days a week so small sample at the soft 1/2 NL game.

However, we did do statistical analysis on the actual variance of my friend playing NL vs LHE based on data we had which was about 3 years.

Based on that, NL had less variance, outliers, black Swan sessions in comparison to LHE.

We agree to disagree if you don't believe me. I'm just trying to help OP.

Please don't derail thread. Could care less about your mastery of Spread Limit.

Last edited by maka2184; 03-05-2016 at 04:15 PM.
10/20LHE vs 1/2NL Quote
03-05-2016 , 04:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maka2184

Based on that, NL had less variance and outliers in comparison to LHE.

We agree to disagree if you don't believe me. I'm just trying to help OP.

Please don't derail thread. Could care less about your mastery of Spread Limit.
I never disagreed with that claim. But nobody is beating 1-2 for $70 hour. Sure maybe over a month or two, but not over any relevant sample.

I'm not derailing the thread; rather trying to save somebody from thinking you can actually make that type of money and actually pursing that career path
10/20LHE vs 1/2NL Quote
03-05-2016 , 04:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon_locke
I never disagreed with that claim. But nobody is beating 1-2 for $70 hour. Sure maybe over a month or two, but not over any relevant sample.

I'm not derailing the thread; rather trying to save somebody from thinking you can actually make that type of money and actually pursing that career path
I agree, bad example on my part.

I do apologize if I confused OP that $70/hour is sustainable long term at 1/2NL.

However, based on small bankroll and OPs specialty being NL, it just seemed better for OP to just grind 1/2 NL, study NL outside of playing, and move back to 2/5 NL by game selecting very conservatively or when OP is comfortable with bankroll again.

Nothing wrong with playing 20/40 to diversity games but 20/40 is similar in stakes as 2/5 and it's easy to get bad habits from NL when playing LHE which would be easy for LHE grinders to notice but OP may not.
10/20LHE vs 1/2NL Quote
03-07-2016 , 03:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by phunkphish
Make money outside of poker. Avoid playing low stakes.
Wins thread
10/20LHE vs 1/2NL Quote

      
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